Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 48 - Wikispecies

Wikispecies:Village Pump/Archive 48 - Wikispecies
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Wikispecies:Village Pump
This is an archive of closed discussions.
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this archive.
We may have our work cut out for us
Justin (
ko
vf
18:03, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thanks for the link. I guess that means that in a few years from now Wikispecies will consist of
way
more words than there are both microbial species on Earth and stars in the sky. Fascinating! –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
18:32, 10 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Pseudoelaeota
Created by an IP. A fake? --
Succu
talk
06:40, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I believe you are right
Succu
, I can't find a trace on Itis, or with Google, while "Pseudoelaters" gets hits like
To aid in spore dispersal, liverworts utilize elaters, whereas hornworts utilize pseudoelaters
Dan Koehl
talk
12:01, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
This page is sheer rubbish. I deleted it.
Mariusm
talk
12:52, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Tableau Encyclopédique et Methodique
I've made some edits to make it explicit this is not solely a botanical work. It's complicated because the various sciences have separate volumations within it and are traditionally treated as completely separate works. Anyone with interest in bibliography can add details for other ares of biology?
Circeus
talk
15:23, 11 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mucilago crustacea and use of "ex" in (botanical) cited authorships
Please can someone check my work on
Mucilago
and
Mucilago crustacea
, a slime mould? I've not come across an "ex" authorship ("
P. Micheli
ex
F.H. Wigg
") before.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:41, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
means that the work was written by Wiggers but the particular section describing the taxa was written by Micheli. That is Micheli
in
Wiggers. Should be written as it is in the Mycological indexes. The way you have it is fine. Should list the original work as a reference though as this is where the description is found. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
15:56, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you. What about the categories?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
21:29, 1 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Are we SURE that should be
replaced
by in? 'cause ex is a common abbreviation too, and has a
completely different
meaning, namely that Wiggers published description and name, but acknowledge that Micheli spotted the species first and came up with the name (e.g. in a letter, in personal notes, on herbarium sheets...), without actually publishing a description. (For you zoologists, yes, the order is reversed between botany and zoology.)
Circeus
talk
02:39, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Got it. Micheli is prelinnean, the name
Mucilago
(and presumably
M. crustacea
) are not originaly binomials, and are seemingly from
Nova plantarum genera
(1729), which i assume is what the "Hall." abbreviations in
Primitiae florae holsaticae
(Somehow...) refers back to. Aither way, the proper publication place for the genus, is apparently Adanson's
Familles des Plantes
(1763, 2:7) according to Mycobank.
Worth noting that
several
names are linked to Pier'Antonio Micheli (IPNI P.Micheli, d. 1737) that rightfully ought to be linked to
Marc
Micheli
(IPNI Micheli, 1844-1902), e.g.
Oenothera glazioviana
Circeus
talk
08:39, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Just confirming that User:Circeus 's explanation is correct. In botanical usage (but NOT zoological), a cited authorship such as "P. Micheli ex F.H. Wigg." means that P. Micheli made the initial description, but in a form that was not validly published; valid publication dates from the work of Wiggers, who (we presume) cited Micheli's invalid work. (If the citation were zoological, it would be Micheli who made the valid publication (available name in zoology), drawing on an unavailable description by Wiggers... there you go). Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
06:00, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Actually, this case is a bit more complicated:
Wiggers
was the first one to coin a binomial, referring to
Haller
Historia stirpium indigenarum Helvetiae inchoata, Vol. 3, p. 110
), who used a trinomial and once more was referring to
Micheli
Nova plantarum genera, p. 216
and
t. 96, fig. 2
). So, in this case both description and name are by
Micheli
, but this had to be validated, because
Micheli
was prelinnean. In later times it often happened, that an earlier name on a herbarium label was used together with a later description and the name of the plant was ascribed to the earlier author by the author who actually described it, e.g.
Geranium holosericeum
Willd.
ex
Spreng.
In the later case, obviousely
Willd.
had found out this would be a new species, but had died, before he could publish it.
Sprengel
honoured this fact by ascribing the name of the taxon to
Willdenow
. --
Franz Xaver
talk
20:35, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Other than following the bibliographic trail through Haller (kudos on that, btw), I'm not sure how this is supposed to be "a bit more complicated" than my statement that Micheli was Prelinnean.
Here's the link
to the 1763 publication of
Mucilago
by Adandon, btw.
Circeus
talk
01:53, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Anyway,
Haller
is important here, as he gave a rather long description of "Mucilago alba, crustacea & filamentosa" and synonymized some earlier (prelinnean) names by
Micheli
and others.
Wiggers
did nothing more, than citing this description and coining a binomial. --
Franz Xaver
talk
04:45, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
quote: "
Wiggers
did nothing more, than citing this description and coining a binomial." - yes, but this was sufficient to constitute the valid publication of the name (by coining the binomial, in a validly published work), which is why the authorship is cited as "... ex F.H. Wigg.". No disrespect intended, just reiterating the answer to the original question. Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
23:56, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
For reference, the relevant portions of the ICNafp are as follows (with a subset of stated examples only):
46.5.
A name of a new taxon is attributed to the author(s) of the publication in which it appears when the name was ascribed to a different author or different authors but the validating description or diagnosis was neither ascribed to nor unequivocally associated with that author or those authors. A new combination, name at new rank, or replacement name is attributed to the author(s) of the publication in which it appears, although it was ascribed to a different author or different authors, when no separate statement was made that one or more of those authors contributed in some way to that publication. However, in both cases authorship as ascribed, followed by “ex”, may be inserted before the name(s) of the publishing author(s).
...Ex. 30.
Lilium tianschanicum
was described by Grubov (in Grubov & Egorova, Rast. Tsent. Azii, Mater. Bot. Inst. Komarova 7: 70. 1977) as a new species, with its name ascribed to Ivanova; because there is no indication that Ivanova provided the validating description, the name is cited as either
L. tianschanicum
N. A. Ivanova ex Grubov or
L. tianschanicum
Grubov.
46.7.
When a name has been ascribed by its author to a pre-starting-point author, the latter may be included in the author citation, followed by “ex”. For groups with a starting-point later than 1753, when a taxon of a pre-starting-point author was changed in rank or taxonomic position upon valid publication of its name, that pre-starting-point author may be cited in parentheses, followed by “ex”.
...Ex. 40. Linnaeus (Gen. Pl., ed 5: 322. 1754) ascribed the name
Lupinus
to the pre-starting-point author Tournefort; the name is cited as either
Lupinus
Tourn. ex L. (Sp. Pl.: 751. 1753) or
Lupinus
L. (see Art. 13.4).
46.10.
Authors publishing nomenclatural novelties and wishing other persons’ names followed by “ex” to precede theirs in author citation may adopt the “ex” citation in the protologue.
...Ex. 48. In validly publishing the name
Nothotsuga
, Page (in Notes Roy. Bot. Gard. Edinburgh 45: 390. 1989) ascribed it to “H.-H. Hu ex C. N. Page”, noting that in 1951 Hu had published it as a nomen nudum; the name is attributed to either Hu ex C. N. Page or C. N. Page.
Refer the relevant portion of the Code at
for full discussion and additional examples.
Tony 1212
talk
03:15, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Same author?
My guess is that
Lima Temjen
and
Limatemjen
refers to the same author and should be merged as "Lima Temjen". However I'm not 100% sure since "Limatemjen" or variations thereof is actually used for some works; e.g. compare
DOI
10.3897/zookeys.643.10506
and
DOI
10.11646/zootaxa.3925.2.3
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
17:07, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Tommy Kronkvist
, Zoobank file them under one name if you see the two publications mentioned respectively under the two, both those publications are filed under the same name, please see
Dan Koehl
talk
19:36, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Lets hear what the editor of the two articles,
Neferkheperre
thinks?
Dan Koehl
talk
08:53, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Neferkheperre
, can you please comment?
Dan Koehl
talk
12:15, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I did quite some research with Zootaxa, Zookeys and Google Scholar. In this case, it is correctly
Limatemjen
. This one of those people with only one name. There are many such in India, Pakistan and Afghanistan, with lesser numbers in Sri Lanka, Myanmar and Thailand. Apparently this causes consternation among Zootaxa's editors. Seems they either double it, or break it in two. In this case, my 2015 entry was called LimaTEMJEN LimaTEMJEN. I interpreted this as
Lima Temjen
. In 2017 in Zookeys, citation used
Limatemjen
. Searching the redlink did not pick up any connections.
In Google Scholar, this person came up consistently as
Limatemjen
. Other Temjens turned up. Some were single-named people with other syllables attached. Others were two-named people with Temjen as family name. I shall fix.
Neferkheperre
talk
23:50, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
It's somewhat unusual in that when people have a single name, they tend to have an accompanying patronym of some sort (I dare say the majority do).
Circeus
talk
01:33, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Valid publication of family Trichoplacidae (Placozoa)?
There is a recent publication on Placozoa by Eitel et al. (
) in which family Trichoplacidae (whose status I had previously believed to be informal) is attributed to "Bütschli and Hatschek 1905" with the reference "Bütschli O, Hatschek B. Zoologisches Zentralblatt. Schuberg A, editor. Verlag von Wilhelm Engelmann, Leipzig; 1905." I did a bit of checking in BHL; the name is in fact found in that work in the "genus and family register" (in German) on p. 904, with a reference to entry no. 292 which is a discussion of Trichoplax and related forms on pp. 221-231 by E. Korschelt, however the term Trichoplacidae does not appear there; thus (unless I have missed it) it appears that the name originates from the compilers (the relevant pages are in BHL at
(genus and family register) and
(p. 221 onwards)).
Of course this is just inclusion of the name in a list, without a diagnosis, so not sure if it counts as a valid name...
So is this sufficient to add Bütschli & Hatschek as authors for this name in Wikispecies? If so maybe someone might do this as I am not sure of the required actions in adding the references etc. If not, further comments would be appreciated. Thanks in advance - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
20:30, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Without looking at this, from what you say if a family name is created based on a previously described genus name it is common to recognise the authors of the old name in the new combination. Ie the authors of Trichoplax getting credit for the name Trichoplacidae. Also if the authors indicated this was a definable group though not naming it, later reviewers can put the name to the group giving credit to the original proposer. Either case could mean the diagnosis is not with the name, but the requirements of this is limited to species and genus group names anyway, so not needed. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
21:28, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Hi Scott/all, I did some checking in the ICZN Code and found the following: "12.1. Requirements. To be available, every new name published before 1931 must satisfy the provisions of Article 11 and must be accompanied by a description or a definition of the taxon that it denotes, or by an
indication
." [my italics], and that for a family, an "indication" includes "12.2.4. the formation of a family-group name from an available generic name". So I am thinking that the lack of a diagnosis is not problem in this case (since Trichoplacidae is formed from
Trichoplax
). Therefore unless there is an earlier usage, I conclude that Eitel et al. are correct in attributing this family name to Bütschli & Hatschek, 1905. (I don't believe Scott's statement "the authors of Trichoplax getting credit for the name Trichoplacidae" is correct, since authorship of family names is independent of authorship of their type genera, and the principle of coordination only applies within groups i.e species-level group, genus-level group, family-level group, refer the Code for more details). Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
22:10, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Principal of Coordinaton refers to the gender formation of the names. Yes I know the code very well. I was meaning it may be what they were doing, I did not check so do not know. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
22:19, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Apologies if I misunderstood what you were suggesting. In any case, authorship of the genus
Trichoplax
is Schultze, 1883 so this is not being used as supposed authorship of the family name.
To recap:
Trichoplax
Schultze, 1883 is (or was until this year) the sole recognised genus in phylum Placozoa, thus a taxonomic oddity. Some sources e.g. URMO years back (then WoRMS) placed
Trichoplax
in a family ("Trichoplacidae") with no explanation; some sources e.g. ITIS suspected that in fact that name had never been published and thus "appears to be a nomen nudum" (see
). However the recent paper of Eitel et al. ascribes the family name to Bütschli and Hatschek 1905, and this appears to hold up on further scrutiny as detailed above. So (unless I am mistaken with this conclusion), I would appreciate it if a WS editor could add relevant information to the page
Trichoplacidae
, in preferred WS formats, which I am not particularly familiar with. Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
23:22, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Also just noticed that Trichoplacidae is presently ascribed in wikispecies to Grell, 1971, which is incorrect so far as I can ascertain (no citations in Google scholar). Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
00:06, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
ok added refs and nomenclatural changes you recommended
Trichoplacidae
Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
01:03, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thanks
Faendalimas
... Cheers - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
06:22, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
File:صن رايز رويال مكادي أكوا 213.jpg
Hello.
I think this picture is very useful for the project.You can use it here
Please add (that need to Master English) the appropriate categories to the description page
Thanks --
ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2
talk
15:13, 22 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
ديفيد عادل وهبة خليل 2
Thanks. I'm not sure what page would use this image. What do you have in mind? We generally only have one image of a species per page and those are usually proper photographs. —
Justin (
ko
vf
00:53, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I agree with Justin (koavf). Additionally, the image doesn't really add much information in terms of taxonomy, which as a species directory is the main purpose of Wikispecies. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
01:47, 23 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Scaptodrosophila n. sp. nr fumida
Do your have any idea what this article is about? Created by
User:Stho002
. --
Succu
talk
21:34, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Is it
Scaptodrosophila fumida
? --
Succu
talk
21:36, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Strange,
Scaptodrosophila fumida
was created 2009-12-08, before
Scaptodrosophila n. sp. nr fumida
, which was created 2010-12-06...
Dan Koehl
talk
06:39, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
"n. sp. nr xxx" is not a formal taxonomic designation, just an informal semi-descriptive name for a presently unnamed taxon, so as such I would have thought an article of this type does not belong on Wikispecies at this time. Regards Tony
Tony 1212
talk
07:04, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
"sp. nov. nr." or "n. sp. nr." means "species near" a certain other known species. It indicates that the specimen is near yet it isn't identical to another known species. This implies that the specimen
may consist
a new species. Since WS doesn't handle such "probable" species, this page doesn't belong here and I deleted it.
Mariusm
talk
09:19, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thx. --
Succu
talk
18:54, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Invalid name
How do you people treat nomenclaturally invalid (unavailable, in ICZN parlance) names?
I've run into a couple isonyms (multiple publication of a nomenclaturally identical name, usually based on a common basionym) recently, and personally I prefer removing them as they seem to me to only generate confusion (the ICBN literally says to treat them as the same name, pretty much like a correctable error).
Circeus
talk
16:49, 12 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Speaking only for zoological entities, ie ICZN code and hence unavailable names, these should be ignored as under the ICZN code they do not exist and are not actually names for the purpose of nomenclature. They should never be used. In rare cases where they have been used as valid names for considerable time I can see reasons to list them on the relevant species page in the synonymy, with explanation and refs. But usually not and they should not ever have a mainspace page. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
04:23, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Speaking mainly for botany, I have to agree with Scott - they should never have their own taxon page, as this will give them unwarranted legitimacy and is confusing. Personally when I encounter the equivalent in plants I redirect and remove from appropriate associated lists, if required. OK they may appear on the accepted taxon page as [[nom. illeg.]] or similar tag. Likewise for comb. ined. and nom. ined. IMHO, although there could be a case for these appearing in a list on a taxon page, but retained as red links with a note of explanation, as this may be temporary. References are essential, of course. I appreciate that for zoology an invalid name is unavailable and so the rules are stricter. Best regards.
Andyboorman
talk
07:57, 14 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Really I meant more with regards to synonym lists.
Circeus
talk
01:19, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Not always entirely related to the above, but occasionally some of the templates in
Category:Name status templates
can be useful. An overview showing how some of them are rendered can be seen in
Category:Pictograms
. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
01:22, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Yes, Tommy, for zoology I use
{{
Invalid
}}
for invalid species,
{{
Invalid genus
}}
for invalid genus and
{{
Invalid taxon
}}
for other ranks. But botany's "invalid" differs from zoology's "invalid". In botany it's a name that doesn't meet the requirements in the International Code of Nomenclature for algae, fungi, and plants for valid publication, while in zoology it's an incorrect zoological name of a taxon i.e. a synonym, nomen nudum etc. Likewise a new template may be created, for example
{{
Invalid botanical name
}}
to serve Circeus' purposes.
Mariusm
talk
09:27, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
template suggested by
Mariusm
Dan Koehl
talk
10:09, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I am not happy with this. In my opinion, there should not be created separate taxon pages for names, which better have to be included in the synonymy of an accepted taxon under its correct name. So, as far as I see, there is no real need for templates, which are only used to mark taxon pages, which actually should not even exist. If zoologists in WS are happy with creating taxon pages for invalid nominal taxa, so I will have to accept this, but I hope, this will never be common usage in botany. --
Franz Xaver
talk
20:50, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Is anybody happy with pages like
Anthus longicaudatus
? OK,
A. longicaudatus
seems to be a synonym now, but the WS taxon page does not give any information on this. A simple redirect to
Anthus vaalensis
certainly would better serve the needs of our users. --
Franz Xaver
talk
21:00, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I am not in agreement with the creation of pages for invalid (zoology) names. They can go in synonymy. I have no issue with them being made for the purposes of a redirect if they had been extensively used. But certainly not all of them. As to the example just above, yes make it a redirect if its now a synonym. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
21:07, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
I too agree with Franz Xaver and Scott Thomson here. In my opinion a simple redirect is better than creating thousands upon thousands of complete taxon pages for taxon names in synonymy. In the mean time (i.e. until we've reached a formal decision) I've changed the name status template on the
Anthus longicaudatus
page.
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
03:57, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I categorically disagree
with the trend to dismiss invalid-name-pages and to be satisfied merely with redirects. This isn't what most of the directories and the catalogs out there are doing. (Botanists: see for example
this page
at the GRIN site - this is a dedicated separate page for a synonym). We're loosing too much valuable information this way. See for example the invalid-name-page
Zyras alboterminalis
. This information is too voluminous and too complicated to be incorporated in the valid-name page, and more so if there are not one but 10 such synonyms. I can't see a better way to display this relevant information other than in creating a dedicated page. I'm not proposing to make this sort of invalid-page-creating a mandatory practice, yet I strongly recommend to use this in cases where the information is asking for a better display paradigm. By the way, we have by now nearly 3.500 pages of invalid-names. This is a very important asset which makes WS more valuable and more useful.
Mariusm
talk
09:25, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I fully agree with Tommy Kronkvist, Franz Xaver, Scott Thomson and any others who do not see the need to create separate taxon pages for names accepted as part of a synonymy. The GRIN example above is a sideshow as most of the cited page appears on
this page
, where it belongs. It editors want to create these pages OK, but they might find a redirect created unless there is a very good reason for not doing so. The three combinations in
Zyras
could be accommodated on a single page, but I am no expert. The uniqueness is in holotype and type locality is this a justification for rewriting the basic premise of WS? In botany I have yet to find a good reason for not creating a redirect unless there is a dispute.
Andyboorman
talk
13:39, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Just to clarify things up: What I'm speaking about above are
heterotypic synonyms
and not
homotypic synonyms
which don't need separate pages but only redirects.
Mariusm
talk
13:55, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
It is no big problem to include all the relevant information also for several heterotypic synonyms in one taxon page – see e.g.
Chaetolepis anisandra
or
Cespedesia spathulata
. --
Franz Xaver
talk
20:31, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Well, Franz, if you consider the user's ease of use and the sources accessibility, particularly when you have at your disposal even more information to display such as mentions-references and synonym-authority-references, you can't beat the clarity and the convenience of a dedicated synonym page, expressly when the work involved in creating such a page does't exceed the one done on your combined taxon page. You can't also deny the fact that
Cespedesia spathulata
looks ratherish overcrammed.
Mariusm
talk
09:24, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I dunno, I think it's no less "overcrammed" than any random scientific material that would present the same information (although duplicating the publication places seems overdoing it, I prefer the zoological tradition, since I always track down the full reference anyway). Besides, Wikispecies can afford to use a more aired out format, since space isn't an issue, see e.g.
Solanum americanum
for an example with a lot more synonyms than
. spathulata
Circeus
talk
11:24, 19 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
Circeus, thanks for your example of
Solanum americanum
. It illustrates just fine why
my
proposal is better than the current practice; I'll explain why: suppose a user searches for
Solanum indecorum
which is one of the heterotypic synonyms of your
Solanum americanum
and suppose he's redirected to this page (although you didn't redirect
Solanum indecorum
). Now this user faces the following drudgery to perform: (a) realize he was redirected to another species-name; (b) realize
Solanum indecorum
is a synonym; (c) search among the mass of information the relevant section he needs; (d) search among the mass of information for the relevant references; (e) try to form a coherent picture in his mind of what
Solanum indecorum
really is. On the other hand, if this user is directed to a dedicates page, where all the relevant information is grouped together, where he clearly can see it is a synonym of what; then I think he would get a far better, clear, scientific service out of WS.
Mariusm
talk
09:07, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Still have to disagree with Mariusm. Firstly, subsequent to a search finding the accepted page using a single click is what I would require. Secondly, finding the information supporting the synonymy on the same click is very convenient. Having to trawl through several pages to get this information is not just inconvenient, it is drudgery, very annoying and could be confusing. The information belongs to the taxon page associated with the accepted name, I just do not see a problem with this. Taxonomy can be complex, but to get it on a single printout at the end of one click is what I requires as a botanist and scientist. It is the KISS principle in operation.
Andyboorman
talk
12:12, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
In my experience, a typical database with separate synonyms is no less confusing that one that is strictly limited to accepted name. If anything, the severe lack of consistency across wikispecies is more of a problem than anything having to do with the amount of data (of which anyone who has ever dealt with taxonomical data should be used to, really.) on any given page. Wikispecies is not specifically aimed for the general public. If it were, it would not have been spun into its own separate project to begin with.
Circeus
talk
14:53, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Yes the inconsistency is a problem. However, it was always my assumption that pages on WS were for accepted taxa, if there are nearly 3,500 pages of separate invalid taxon pages, then that is a problem caused by contributors operating outside of consensus. OK, consensus can be changed but that will affect many more taxon pages and create much additional work. Hence this discussion and clearly there are differences of strongly held opinion. Bear in mind,
Marsdenia macrophylla
has 6 heterotypic synonyms yet to be created. There are over 130 species of this genus, so that is potentially several hundred invalid pages instead of the 130 or so, once somebody gets to reviewing the genus in order to produce to sort of exemplar pages created in
Solanum
above. Wait until you get to
Astragalus
Andyboorman
talk
15:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
And this sort of practicality is why I agree with you. I'm well aware how big some genera get (Solanum is amongst the largest too). When you get past a certain number of species, though (I believe
Solanum
is estimated around 1,500), the change in scale is really not that much, because it's still just a plain ginormous amount of data so doubling it... just makes it still ginormous.
Circeus
talk
16:57, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
I deal with names all the time and for different reasons. I do so as a taxonomist and paleontologist, but I am also very heavily involved in conservation. That is an end user of names. So we really have two groups, producers of names and end users. The producers of names have an intricate need for all this data on each and every name, others with historical or just plain interest in it may too. The other group is the end user and I would include the general public in this. In may paper on this topic we mention the distinction between the producers, taxonomists, and the end users, everyone else. The end users want to know what to call something, that is all. By presenting all this information on one page as a synonymy we meet the needs of both, keeping it easy for those that want a name, and presenting the information for those that wish to take it further.
Thomson, S.A.
Pyle, R.L.
Ahyong, S.T.
Alonso-Zarazaga, M.A.
Ammirati, J.
Araya, J.F.
et al.
2018. Taxonomy based on science is necessary for global conservation.
PLOS Biology
16(3): e2005075.
DOI
10.1371/journal.pbio.2005075
Reference page
Paper is above, Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
19:48, 20 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Please look at how Eschmeyer et. al. handle it in the Catalog of Fishes. Note the ICZN is not always "right" and some authors of some note will not follow changes they make made without argument. CoF handles this non-problem with invalid names nicely. RS79
— The preceding
unsigned
comment was added by
209.141.187.207
talk
00:39, 28 September 2018‎ (UTC)
reply
Aves
Hello,
A massive edit
on the page
Aves
was pretty dramatic, and I would kindly like to ask the community what you think, and if such a change is supported by discussions, consensus, or likewise? I haven't looked into the actual details, just noticed it was a large change, and wanted to bring this to your attention.
Dan Koehl
talk
16:31, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Not an avian expert, but it would have been better if the editor has provided references rather than just a message and a promise. How consensual are the recently added taxa?
Andyboorman
talk
17:46, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I have taken the liberty to revert. As far as I can tell, there is no "recent classification" of any sort that comes close to accepting any of the groups being restored there. There will be a need for a VERY good sources for those changes to be implemented, and maybe having a few people from en.wiki's WikiProject Birds to come over and keep an eye on that page would be a good idea.
Circeus
talk
21:27, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Both Dan Koehl and myself made a note about this matter on the
user's talk page
several hours prior to Dan bringing up the issue here, so in any case the user has been properly noted. He is registered as
Linkoln7
and has made a total of three edits to Wikispecies: one to
Aves
(diff.)
and two when creating
Threskiornithiformes
(diff.)
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
00:12, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Well, it looks we have a very outdated
Aves
page. Clements/EBird 2018 lists a total of 41 orders;
IOC version 8.2
a total of 39, the only differences being
Galbuliformes
included by IOC in
Piciformes
and
Cathartiformes
included by IOC in
Accipitriformes
. WS page lists only 33 extant orders, but in reality 30, because
Apodiformes
and
Trochiliformes
are included by both IOC and Clements in
Caprimulgiformes
and
Turniciformes
included by both in
Charadriiformes
. The edition done goes beyond including new "elevated" orders, e.g.
Steatornithiformes
and
Threskiornithiformes
not yet listed by the two cited classifications. I don't know which classification the user was based on. So, what we do? If we follow IOC as stated, we should promote a massive edition not only at Aves page but al the subsequent families templates.--
Hector Bottai
talk
03:02, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
On time. Took a look at en.wiki project. They are in line with Clements, except:
Galbuliformes
is not listed and
Apodiformes
is. Definitely, we are well behind.--
Hector Bottai
talk
03:19, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I Agree that theres a need to update the article.
Dan Koehl
talk
08:26, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
By the way, when trying to add the references which I created today, related to the updated taxonomy of Aves, it is my perception that many of the two dozens of references there have nothing to do with the taxonomic history of Aves. Please take a look. I don't want to give any particular example.--
Hector Bottai
talk
14:54, 28 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I agree with Bottai regarding references being added to pages where they are not really needed. Some users will add any reference containing "bird" or "Aves" to the
Aves
page, for example
The collection and database of birds of Angola hosted at IICT
. The page
Aves
and its references are in urgent need of revision.
Mariusm
talk
08:42, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Snaursaurus
Looks like this genus was never described. Same with
Snaurtitan bobicae
and/or
Snaursaurus bobicae
. Should be probably deleted here an at Wikidata. Regards. --
Succu
talk
19:29, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Agreed.
Burmeister
talk
19:32, 29 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Snore-saurus, people? Puton. We must watch for these, from time to time. I frequently check strange-sounding names when I see them. Occasional ones are valid, but most are some type of joke.
Neferkheperre
talk
01:12, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
I've deleted the
Snaursaurus
page from Wikispecies and
requested the deletion
of its equivalent Wikidata item (
Q47057215
). Our page was created by an IP user who hasn't contributed with any more edits than this single page creation. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
03:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thx. --
Succu
talk
15:04, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Requests for Comment: Interface administrators
It seems the discussion at
Wikispecies:Requests_for_Comment
regarding the new user right
Interface administrator
never resulted in a clear direction in regard to some sort of community consensus and similar. While this discussion may be actualized, I boldly created the page
Wikispecies:Interface administrators
, a
user box
, and would like to suggest that we elect at least one Interface admin. Please have a look at the discussion at
Wikispecies:Requests_for_Comment
and consider take a part in the discussions. See also
metapage
about this topic.
Dan Koehl
talk
11:02, 30 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
HOT HET etc.
Why have these templates suddenly acquired silly looking brackets? Is there a purpose for these accoutrements? Are they wanted by the community? Are there other examples? Am I the only one to find them pointless?
Here is an example
. Incidentally, there are other ways of creating the tags and this changes will not affect these, so we will end up with more inconsistency, once again. I do wish editors would not make such far reaching changes without first taking them here and explaining their reasons and seek consensus. Regards.
Andyboorman
talk
07:02, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Andyboorman
, is it possible they started to appear with
this edit
({{int:Homotypic}}) by
Rosičák
Dan Koehl
talk
08:39, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
That is the problem, for some reason the int has added the spurious brackets, so edit was well meaning but caused an error. I will revert.
Andyboorman
talk
08:42, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
These brackets appear, if int: is used for words, that are not yet included in the
Wikispecies:Localization
table. --
Thiotrix
talk
09:38, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Ok, příště budu postupovat obráceně, nejdříve vytvořím šablony./
Ok, next time I'll go backwards, I'll first create templates.
--
Rosičák
talk
13:57, 21 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
Andyboorman
I've created the two necessary MediaWiki pages for both "Heterotypic" and "Homotypic" and thereafter added the words to the
Wikispecies:Localization
table
(diff.)
so those lemmas should now work together with the
int:
localization magic word. Are there any other synonymy related "…
typic
" words that needs to be listed, for example any other templates like
{{HET}}
and
{{HOT}}
? I never use any of those synonymy templates myself, so I need to ask... :-)
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
18:13, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Tommy Kronkvist
The only other one I can think of is {{moty}} for monotypic. A perennial problem is the cluster {{TS}}, {{TG}} and {{tysp}} - mind you I have been editing these out because I have been told they cause wider problems. Thanks
Andyboorman
talk
18:27, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
Andyboorman
I've added the "Monotypic", "Type genus", "Type species" and "Typus" phrases to the list. I agree that all of the templates you mention should be used as sparsely as possible, and I too normally replace them with plain text and non-templated wiki code. However in this particular case (i.e. the "silly looking brackets inconsistency") it's not really a question of erroneous templates, but the much more straight-forward task of auto-translating words. That function is taken care of by the servers and is more or less bug-free, but first the (English) words needs to be manually added to the
Wikispecies:Localization
table for it to work. Otherwise those weird and yes very ⧼quirky⧽ looking brackets show up. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
)‚
18:57, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
reply
The template REP for "replaced synonym" should be translated, too. --
Thiotrix
talk
11:55, 1 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Undescribed species
Are undescribed species within the scope of Wikispecies? I found:
Delos "rangiora"
Delos "southeast"
Delos "triregia"
BTW:
en:Undescribed taxon
. --
Succu
talk
19:40, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Personally I would say no: since they're not part of the taxonomy and doesn't have a formal place within the nomenclature, they're not (yet) within the scope of Wikispecies. They might as well be treated as Superimperium
incertae sedis
🙄. I guess we could create some sort of "waiting list" page or category for them, but as far as I can see they have no value from a taxonomical viewpoint. When deleting pages from Wikispecies one of the options in the delete-dropdown menu reads "
Incorrectly named or no such taxon
", and there is a good reason for that. Better let Wikipedia handle those "taxa", if at all.
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
20:15, 2 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I agree, although in some areas (Australian botanists are quite fond of them too) they can be common and indeed a species may be referred to by such a name for
decades
(as
Solanum ossicruentum
and
Solanum watneyi
were).
Circeus
talk
00:23, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Same applies to comb. ined. there are a number of these as genera get re-organised with just a few species missed out of the new circumscription.
Andyboorman
talk
06:46, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Comb. ineditum are a different issue IMO. It's easier to just note on the species page that it's confirmed as belonging to a different genus and that the combination is not yet publiahed. At least, they have a published name of some sort that can be used, even if it's not phylogenetically (and sometimes nomenclaturally) correct at the time.
Circeus
talk
07:07, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
These three undescribed species were mentioned in
this paper
published in 2002 and they were not described ever since. The genus
Delos
officially contains only 4 species. The 3 undescribed species are not within WS scope, which includes only "official" described species, hence I deleted them.
Mariusm
talk
08:40, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
The problem with a comb. ined. is that under ICBN Art 49-50 the name does not exist, as it is not been validly or effectively published. They sit in a sort of holding area or no man's land awaiting analysis and confirmation. In WS they still are "
Incorrectly named or no such taxon
". In addition, these names really belong under the "old" genus not the "new" one. For example,
Epilobium bondarenkoi
(Tzvel.) comb. ined. is still
Chamaenerion bondarenkoi
Tzvel. Novosti Sist. Vyssh. Rast. 45: 49. (2014). Comb. ined. can not have their own taxon page unless there is a shift in WS policy - IMO, so there is similarity with Delos above.
Andyboorman
talk
12:27, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
The problem with creating pages for undescribed species is highlighted by the point
Mariusm
made. They were defined as species in 2002 and are still not described. These are beyond our scope I believe and its safer to ignore them, if and when they are described we can add them. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
02:05, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
Indeed, Scott. The specific
Delos
names above are very good examples. Not only are they still not described: they have hardly even been
mentioned
in any other paper than the original 2002 one. Case closed, I guess.
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
04:07, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Synonym drop down box
Hello. This synonymy format has come back into the frame. See here for an example
Tripleurospermum_parviflorum
. I am sure we discussed it before and decided that it was not a good idea, maybe I am wrong? I can see a number of disadvantages, the main one, IMHO, being that taxonomically it gives an undue prominence to the synonyms with its atypical format. However, I can see that where there is a long list then this compacts it somewhat. By the way the Redirect Tool does not work with this format - a major problem as far as I am concerned. Open for discussion. Best regards
Andyboorman
talk
) 19:59, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
Apologies - here is the template
{{
SN
}}
Andyboorman
talk
20:23, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Synonymy and Nomenclature drop down boxes have been basically rejected, although I am sure some are still found on taxon pages. Likewise, {{Spage}} is no longer advised.
Neferkheperre
talk
19:31, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Quiscalus purpureus
What is the modern name for
Quiscalus purpureus
? (See
c:Category:Quiscalus purpureus
.)
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:22, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Quiscalus purpureus
is a synonym of
Quiscalus quiscula
. For more information see
Oberholser
(1919)
JSTOR
Burmeister
talk
12:34, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I have made a synonym taxon redirect for the commons category. --
Thiotrix
talk
13:07, 6 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
A tool when you need to type something very often
For those who never used programs like AutoHotkey, and often have to type and repeat words or sentences over and over again, I just want to bring your attention to a small nice program called AutoHotkey (available to download at
Description:
Define hotkeys for the mouse and keyboard, remap keys or buttons and ... It unites hotkey and text macros and offers a scripting language
= Imagine you just press Ctrl+R instead of typing text and inserting templates etc. It saves a lot of time and frustration and makes everything faster. Remember, if you use templates, that instead of using the
Send
, you must use the
SendRaw
Dan Koehl
talk
20:43, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I use that a lot in my editing, and elsewhere, and wrote
a blog post explaining how I set it up
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
20:58, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Richard Crawshay
Is our
Richard Crawshay
botanist
mycologist, the Captain Richard Crawshay who authored 'The birds of Tierra del Fuego' (London, 1907)?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
20:55, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I can't find anything online to confirm.
TL-2 gives the following sources
for bio informations (also cites some manuscript materials at Kew and Smithsonian):
John Hendley Barnhart (1965)
Biographical notes upon Botanists
:394.
Linday & Sydow.
Thesaurus litteraturae mycologicae et lichenologicae
Supplement
:5822.
Harold Fletcher (1965)
The story of the Royal Horticultural Society, 1804-1968
:205
Circeus
talk
21:26, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
From
The Eponym Dictionary of Birds
[1]
, it seems that at least the years of birth and death (1862–1958) are the same for the hunter and collector Captain Richard Crawshay as for the mycologist in IPNI. He collected birds and insects for the
British Museum
. For the mycologist, there are no plant names in IPNI authored by him. Index Fungorum lists just
one fungus species
, Mycobank lists three names with his authorship, all from 1930. --
Thiotrix
talk
07:30, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Interesting, thank you. Do IPNI, or any other source, or any of the non-bird species he documented, link him to Tierra del Fuego, or elsewhere in South America?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:22, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I have just found:
Crawshay, Richard (f1 1901/2). He was a military Captain during the Anglo-Boer war and spent ten months in 1901/2 purchasing Basotho ponies in the lowlands of Lesotho as remounts for the British army. It is likely that he is the same Richard Crawshay who was a magistrate in Nyasaland in 1894, and who before that collected butterflies around Lake Mweru, Zambia between June 1892 and January 1893.
Publication: Author of Basutoland and the Basutos. Geographical Journal 21(6):645.655, 1903.
Collections: During his time in Lesotho, he climbed Machache, one of the highest mountains in Lesotho, where he collected a many-spotted snake, one of the only two records of this snake for Lesotho. There are also ants in the Iziko South African Museum, Cape Town, collected by him at Mafeten & Lesotho in 1902. Crawshay, the magistrate, sent a collection of Nyasa butterflies, via Sclater (q.v.), to the British Museum in 1894. Five of these were new species and described by A.G. Butler in Proceedings of the Zoological Society of London in 1895.
Sources: Ambrose, David. 2008; lziko South African Museum, Cape Town database; archive.org/stream/.../cu31924028745861_djvu.txt .
in 'A Biographical Dictionary of Contributors to the Natural History of the Free State and Lesotho', Rodney Moffett
(2008). Sadly the URL dos not resolve.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:38, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
See here
Epon. Dict. Mamm.
(Beolens & al, 2009:89-90) again focuses on his time in Africa (he collected an important type specimen of zebra), Gilllet (Kew Bull., 13(3):369. 1958) and Smith (J. Moll. Stud., 6(6):333. 1965) discuss him for African plants and Fuegoan molluscs, respectively.
The Narrow Edge
(Cramer, 2015:11) only has the briefest of mention (his stay in Tierra del Fuego was in 1904). Even the British Museum
doesn't seem to know
whether the mycologist and the Tierra del Fuego explorer (letters with summary are accessible) are the same! At least this confirms Crawshay definitely collected plants.
More letters here
, with full transcriptions.
I think Fletcher's book is the only way we can might possibly (no guarantee) bridge the period between 1907/1910 (return from Tierra and writing of his book) and 1930.
Circeus
talk
14:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
An intriguing puzzle,. I've read all the transcribed letters on the RCVS site, and there are no clues there.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
16:54, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
This paper
shows one Crawshay having an interest in fish, plants, molluscs, and rocks, and even a glass arrow, from Tierra del Fuego; while
this report
has him donating TdF bird skins to Norwich Castle Museum.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
17:02, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I suppose the next question is: does anyone have access to a copy of (mycologist) Crawshay's
The Spore Ornamentation of Russulas
(Baillière, Tindall & Cox, 1930)?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
18:01, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Unfortunately I can't track down a copy of
The Spore Ornamentation of Russulas
, but I have found two reviews on the book
. They suggest that this Crawshay spent a considerable amount of time examining spores under a microscope and developing techniques for staining and imaging. The preface of the book was written by French mycologist
Frédéric Bataille
, and some of his species descriptions are of specimens from France, suggesting he may have spent time there.
Voganaa
talk
08:35, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Table cell templates
I was muckign around
Wanted pages
and... do we actually have any use (or even
use at all
) those
table cell templates
? 'cause they are a huge set (
sixty!
) of templates seemingly without use outside their own documentation, and they are generating redlinks that pollute Special:WantedPages.
Circeus
talk
16:04, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
No use to me at all. Delete. Cheers.
Andyboorman
talk
17:11, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I got all the pretties. And their little category too!
Circeus
talk
21:01, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Sylvilagus
{{
Ruedas et al., 2017
}}
includes " restoration of
S. andinus
(Thomas, 1897) and
S. tapetillus
(Thomas, 1897)". I have created pages on those species; please can someone check them?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
21:54, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Good start. If you have the whole paper available, might be worth adding type localities and repositories of type specimens for new taxa.
Accassidy
talk
10:11, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you. No, that's all I have.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
22:14, 17 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Added DOIs and BHL links to the Oldfield references.
Circeus
talk
01:38, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Compromised account
Just a heads-up that
User:Koavf
's account
was compromised
and granted admin rights to 3 users
at another WMF wiki
. I went through his edit history and action log and did not notice anything. But it's possible that the hacker used his
Checkuser rights
Dan Koehl
and
Faendalimas
, as the remaining 2 CheckUsers on this wiki, please check the CheckUser log and ensure Koavf's account did not run any Checkuser actions over the past few days. CheckUser logs are not available for other admins/bureaucrats/users to view except by other CheckUsers.
For other admins and users, I know that feeling when my account was compromised and temporarily locked 3 years ago. But unlike this time, the hacker didn't do anything malice to my account and only posted a message saying that they managed to log into my account. It's a good time to make sure that your password is not shared with any other accounts to avoid being compromised.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
22:28, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thanks fpr the headsup
OhanaUnited
, and I have noticed todays intensive debate on securing accounts, and will wait for further recommendations. On behalf of the account of
Koavf
a total of 5 CUs were made, 4 user names and 1 IP, just after noon, during apr 4 minutes, on 2018-10-20. No further CUs since then...
Dan Koehl
talk
22:51, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Ok, thank you for that info. That sounds like whoever gained his account ran 5 CheckUser requests. I'll notify
the Ombudsman
for the privacy breach.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
23:35, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Yes, 5 different CheckUser requests.
Dan Koehl
talk
23:38, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Hm. Thanks all. Account has been reset. —
Justin (
ko
vf
08:19, 23 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Even though your account has been restored, I'm uncomfortable with your access to CU until it's established that the attack-vector has been eliminated and you continue to have the confidence of the community. There's a lot of questions lingering (for better or for worse). Someone used your account and ran 5 CU checks. That's totally not ok especially when we don't know which 5 users were looked up. We also don't know how long the hacker had access to your account. Even though you used unique password (and I don't blame you because it sounded like a sophisticated attack), there are other tools like email notification for "login from an unfamiliar device" option that could have flagged this problem quicker.
OhanaUnited
Talk page
00:30, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
This episode is worrying but please no victim blaming.
Andyboorman
talk
10:23, 25 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Garrinae + Bagarius
Please could an ichthyologist check
Talk:Garrinae#Validity
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
19:43, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
And
Talk:Glyptosterninae#Bagarius
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
23:23, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I have made a start fixing this. The taxon appears in Fishbase
here
. They are correct Garrinae is not valid, but we can rename the page to fill the currently not created tribe of a similar name. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
00:58, 27 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
(a)
Garrinae
is in fact
Cyprinidae
Labeoninae
Garrini
(b)
Bagarius
belongs to:
Sisoridae
Sisorinae
Bagariini
and not as presently stated.
I don't have the time to make the changes, I hope someone here will take on the corrections.
Mariusm
talk
10:01, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Potentially useful article?
Circeus
talk
10:58, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Yes it is, for
(a)
Mariusm
talk
13:52, 28 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Vernacular Names
Can anybody tell me how to edit the VN section when this procedure is being used. {{#invoke:VN|main}}{{VN}}. Most opaque and not helpful for a mere editor not a coder. Can the author tell us the rationale and why it was not bought to the pump before now?
Andyboorman
talk
09:28, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Got it now go to WD. Still think it is a bit of tail wagging dog. Cheers
Andyboorman
talk
13:31, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
First: This link automatically gets old and new vernacular names of Wikidata.
Second: Here automatically connection with the hidden
Category:Pages with vernacular names
. Cheers.
Orchi
talk
16:23, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
600,000 pages
We've now reached the 600,000 article-mark! The 500,000 mark was reached on 7/January/2017 – we've done 100,000 pages in one year and 10 months.
Mariusm
talk
14:41, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Congrats to all of us!--
Hector Bottai
talk
19:46, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
If my number is right, the 600,000th article is
Duangchai Sookchaloem
, written by
MILEPRI
OhanaUnited
Talk page
03:59, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Editing News #2—2018
Read this in another language
Subscription list for this multilingual newsletter
Did you know?
Did you know that you can use the visual editor on a mobile device?
Tap on the pencil icon to start editing. The page will probably open in the wikitext editor.
You will see another pencil icon in the toolbar. Tap on that pencil icon to the switch between visual editing and wikitext editing.
Remember to publish your changes when you're done.
You can read and help translate
the user guide
, which has more information about how to use the visual editor.
Since the last newsletter, the
Editing Team
has wrapped up most of their work on the
2017 wikitext editor
and
the visual diff tool
. The team has begun investigating the needs of editors who use mobile devices. Their work board is available
in Phabricator
. Their
current priorities
are fixing bugs and improving mobile editing.
Recent changes
The Editing team has published an
initial report about mobile editing
The Editing team has begun a design study of visual editing on the mobile website. New editors have trouble doing basic tasks on a smartphone, such as adding links to Wikipedia articles. You can
read the report
The Reading team is working on a
separate mobile-based contributions project
The 2006 wikitext editor is
no longer supported
. If you used
that toolbar
, then you will no longer see any toolbar. You may choose another editing tool in your
editing preferences
local gadgets
, or
beta features
The Editing team described the history and status of
VisualEditor
in
this recorded public presentation
(starting at 29 minutes, 30 seconds).
The Language team released
a new version of Content Translation
(CX2) last month, on
International Translation Day
. It integrates the visual editor to support templates, tables, and images. It also produces better wikitext when the translated article is published.
[2]
Let's work together
The Editing team wants to improve visual editing on the mobile website.
Please read
their ideas
and tell the team what you think would help editors who use the mobile site.
The
Community Wishlist Survey
begins next week.
If you aren't reading this in your preferred language, then please help us with translations! Subscribe to the
Translators mailing list
or
directly. We will notify you when the next issue is ready for translation. Thank you!
Whatamidoing (WMF)
talk
14:17, 2 November 2018 (UTC)
Bull. Soc. Fouad I. Entom.
Wikidata has
an item
labelled "Bull. Soc. Fouad I. Entom.". Does anyone know the full title, ISSN, URL, etc? Do we have a corresponding page?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
11:52, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Bulletin de la Societe Fouad 1er d'entomologie
ISSN 0373-3289
Voganaa
talk
20:34, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
20:39, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
I think that this discussion is resolved and can be archived. If you disagree, don't hesitate to replace this template with your comment.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
20:39, 5 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Lots of †††'s to come
Human activity has reduced species counts by 60% in the last 40 years according to the new
WWF report
, overexploitation and agriculture being the main causes. Get ready to use up lots of †'s in the future edits ...
Mariusm
talk
16:11, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mariusm
, agree on this, but just want to suggest that IUCNs report are maybe more valid than WWFs? And according to IUCN, I think a species is declared offically extinct after noone has seen an individual, during the last 50 years? Im not sure how we shall inform about this in the most correct way, but at least I vote for IUCN as a better source for extinction, than WWF?
Dan Koehl
talk
17:52, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
The Living Planet Report is not focused especially on species extinction, but rather is dealing with species decline, i.e. with species getting rare because of human pressure. In my opinion, that's the even bigger problem. Decades or even centuries before a species is going extinct, it has ceased to play its role in its former ecosystems. --
Franz Xaver
talk
19:17, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
I don't think 60% is accurate count. I agree with IUCN, and some species thought extinct are being found. Tasmanian tiger, thought to be extinct almost 100 years, is still being argued over. I could not bring up WWF, so I could not assess their reasoning. Many times such figures include only tetrapods, and gloss over invertebrates. I do know frogs are in serious decline, and many bird species. They are more visible than insects and spiders, and more photogenic.
Neferkheperre
talk
23:55, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
reply
Some days ago, I read that this was claim is not true, they have mixed a mean number with total number in order to present sensational sumbers, in order to scare people to donate money? Thre is still atragical decline, but WWFs number and claims are not true?
Dan Koehl
talk
09:47, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
As far as I see, people just don't read the WWF report and simply reproduce their own views, claiming that WWF would have told this or that. If you have a look into the summary of the report (linked above), you can read: "Populations ... have, on average, declined in size by 60 percent in just over 40 years". However, an overall decline of population sizes does not mean, that a single species would have gone extinct. Anyway, misrepresentation is going on, and it seems, that everybody is only seeking confirmation of own views. By the way, decline of population sizes for a majority of species, is just, what can be observed, when you have open eyes. Of course, there exist also species, which have increased their populations during the last 40 years, but the recent recovery of
Ciconia ciconia
would not outweight a decline in population sizes of dozens of species inhabiting extensivly used grasslands, e.g.
Alauda arvensis
Perdix perdix
Anthus pratensis
Vanellus vanellus
etc. --
Franz Xaver
talk
14:28, 6 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Systematikdagarna 2018 in Lund University, Sweden, November 26-27
Systematikdagarna is a yearly conference on systematic biology, arranged by the Swedish Systematists Association. The meeting is open for anyone interested in systematics; amateurs, working systematists, and users of systematics in any form.
Dan Koehl
talk
08:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Hilda Flores Olvera
Are
María Hilda Flores Olvera
d:Q21513245
) and Hilda Flores Olvera (
d:Q33687235
) the same or different?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
22:37, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
The
IPNI entry
is faulty: According to Plant Names search, there is only one taxon described by an author with the standard form
Olvera
Utricularia regia
. If you check the respective paper, you will find the author to be Martha Olvera.
Atriplex valdesii
given as example for Olvera authorship, now is given as "Atriplex valdesii Flores Olv." So, two persons, both from Mexico and working with Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México, are involved and only one of both is Hilda Flores Olvera, but IPNI entry 20008565-2 is a mix. --
Franz Xaver
talk
23:56, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
I've submitted a correction to IPNI for the Martha Olvera entry (full name:
Martha Virginia Olvera García
). The really funny thing is that these two have collaborated together on some projects.
Circeus
talk
03:07, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Category:Name taxa
Category:Name taxa
does not exist, but has 80 entries which seem - from a small sample - to have all been added to it manually. Does anyone know what it is supposed to be for?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
21:04, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
All of them were added by
Abyssal
whom I hereby ping hoping for an answer. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
02:20, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Pigsonthewing
Tommy Kronkvist
Oops. I started a personal initiative to make sure every plesiosaur had a listing here and was categorized by describer. Those were placeholder categories so I could just paste the name of the author over "Name". I completely forgot about this. I'll start polishing these up this week. I have a day or two's worth of work I want to do back on the 'Pedia and I'll get right back on this.
Abyssal
talk
02:33, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you.
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
02:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Taxon Frameworks
Copying
User:DarTar
's post from Wikidata's village pump:
Hey all, iNaturalist just
announced
the introduction of
Taxon Frameworks
based on a number of external secondary authorities, in an effort to "track and communicate what we mean by a particular branch of the tree of life and thus what we're all agreeing to reference and curate towards." Worth reading as it has potential implications for data modeling and referencing in Wikidata.
DarTar
talk
) 00:30, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
because this is relevant for Wikispecies, also.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
17:50, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Native distribution areas
Since the "
Native distribution areas
" section is being added to lots of botanical species, I decided to start adding it also to my own zoology edits. At any rate, I think that the hidden format the botanists use, utilizing the template
{{
Nadi
}}
is not adequate (see for example
Vaccinium laurifolium
). I'm using the more straightforward format (see for example
Stenus cicindeloides
).
I think that the "Native distribution areas" is indeed a very important piece of information and I wish we reach a consensus on the format we should employ. I wish to hear your comments on the best format to employ, eventually to be followed with a ballot.
Mariusm
talk
10:30, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Template
{{
Nadi
}}
uses an accepted hierarchical format, rather than a straight forward list. To do away with nadi would result in numerous re-edits, probably a case of bolting the stable door, as it is now so well used in botanical pages. However, as a botanical database WS is more or less unique using this particular format. See these other examples
Govaerts, R.
et al.
2018.
Arum
in
Kew Science Plants of the World Online
. The Board of Trustees of the
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
. Published online. Accessed: 2018 Nov. 13.
Reference page
. ,
Govaerts, R.
et al.
2018.
Arum
in
Kew Science Plants of the World Online
. The Board of Trustees of the
Royal Botanic Gardens, Kew
. Published online. Accessed: 2018 Nov. 13.
Reference page
. ,
c.f. WS
Arum
. Just a few thoughts
Andyboorman
talk
10:47, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Modifying the
{{
Nadi
}}
template will suffice to do away with the hidden mode. No need for "numerous re-edits".
Mariusm
talk
11:04, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
OK, the template
{{
Nadi
}}
could easily be changed, but in some cases this would give rather bulky results, e.g. in
Thespesia populnea
. So I am content with it, this it is a collapsible box. Anyway, for wide-spread species I feel the need, that distribution data need to be given some structure.
This here
certainly is no good solution presenting distribution data. So, the existing TDGW scheme, which also is used by WCSP using different format, see e.g.
Arum
, and similarly by GRIN (e.g.
[3]
, seems to be useful. However, it hardly can be used as a general way to present distribution data for animals, as it is not applicable to marine organisms. (Plants are mostly terrestrial. The few marine species are coastal.) Moreover, it also would not work very well for migratory species. So, probably for animals a different scheme needs to be developed. Which format to use, seems to be the least important problem. --
Franz Xaver
talk
11:10, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
On Cirripedia, I have been using
Distribution
:, using information based on original descriptions and reviewers/checklists. Unfortunately, many species are reported only from type localities.
Neferkheperre
talk
13:49, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
I agree with Franz Xaver: The TDGW scheme is broadly used by botanists, so template:nadi is very useful for plant taxa. Additionally a map can be added, e.g. for
Chenopodium spinescens
. Animals or non-benthic marine organisms would need a different scheme to show their native distribution. --
Thiotrix
talk
13:58, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Another important consideration: the possibility of using [[China]] and [[Category: China]] for countries the same way we use [[DBSNU]] and [[Category:DBSNU]] for repositories. This way we can facilitate the production of lists of species per country.
Mariusm
talk
14:00, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Is there consensus to add this?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
17:23, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Do you mean "
Native distribution areas
" as a discrete section in the same way as Name or Synonym?
Andyboorman
talk
18:20, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Good question
Pigsonthewing
Soon we will be adding description, behaviour..etc. There are several qualifications for a native zoological species: breeding? vagrant? accidental? introduced? extint in the territory? Which would be the reliable and approved source for the information? Working only with neotropical birds, I find so many taxonomic outdates to work on...why adding new features when the basic is not yet well done. Not in favour, to me not a good idea.--
Hector Bottai
talk
18:41, 13 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Distribution is different from description, diagnosis, material etc. It appears in the most terse species-catalogues and is one of the most important features of a species. Many papers are being written just to report a record of a certain species in a country where it wasn't seen before. The botanists here have decided long ago to incorporate it in WS without getting an approval from the community, so this became a de-facto section. I don't see a sweeping objection here to adding the distribution section but it would be appropriate to cast a vote on this.
Mariusm
talk
09:47, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Agree with a vote for zoological species given botanist have widely accepted. Good explanation
Mariusm
, thanks.--
Hector Bottai
talk
11:50, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
[undent] As to adding general distribution information, I am firmly against. No matter how you look at them,
distributions are not taxonomical information.
They do not belong on Wikispecies, period. I could buy
maybe
sorting for type location only, but that's not all that useful when for many older species, the original location is from cultivation.
Circeus
talk
23:47, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Of course, distribution is relevant for taxonomy. Certainly you know these theories of
en:Allopatric speciation
and
en:Sympatric speciation
. Moreover, species receive their ecological significance by the fact, that they occur somewhere. --
Franz Xaver
talk
00:22, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Agree with Franz. Distributions are useful, but not essential, to taxonomy and therefor can belong here. They can be part of the why in the same way as a reference. In conclusion, adding distributions is a case of desirable, but not essential data in the same way as VN and images. Just my opinion of course.
Andyboorman
talk
08:32, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Circeus
WS is defined as a "species guide" (see the
Charter
) or a "species directory" (see the main page). As such, the distribution is an integral, essential and important part of this directory. The ideal of "pure taxonomy" is an unattainable one.
Mariusm
talk
09:59, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Historical distributions
Are we talking about broadly accepting this? I forsee a potential problem in that some species have changed their distributions as a result of glaciation events or even extinction. Extinct species have no distribution at present. That is, are we talking about giving "present distribution" with a specific date, or will we be able to give information about native distributions for species now extinct? Even living species may have had enormous changes over time as a result of major climatic changes during the Pleistocene.
We need to consider not only the spatial aspect of distributions but the temporal aspect as well. The current model doesn't even come close to addressing that. --
EncycloPetey
talk
19:10, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
The usual way for showing extinctions is the dagger symbol, as for example is practised by WCSP in the case of
Betula nana
in Italy. --
Franz Xaver
talk
20:08, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Of course. Surely no problems, except for the species/genera no longer extant in once accepted locations!
Andyboorman
talk
20:25, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
So, does that mean that fossil species have no distribution information? Surely knowing the distribution of fossil taxa is relevant? And how do we coordinate distributions where the taxon is there
now
but
also
known there as fossils? How do we indicate in which stratigraphic layers the fossils have been found? --
EncycloPetey
talk
03:20, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
EncycloPetey
For extant species the "distribution" is to include only living specimens. For extinct species, the distribution section is not applicable, "Type locality" subsection being adequate enough.
Mariusm
talk
09:33, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
That's where I disagree, and so do some of the comments above from others. If we can't determine a simple question such as applicability, then there is no way we'll be able to make use of this section. --
EncycloPetey
talk
15:29, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Fossile are generally given both location and horizon, for the type, anything else is descriptive. Horizon is its stratigraphic position. Personally I am not keen on all this as it is a detraction of what we are about. However, as I said below I tentatively support this, but we need to get it to work.
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
19:48, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
List of native countries
Would be this example list at IUCN the model?
Tachybaptus ruficollis
Are we going to use "The former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia" or just "Macedonia" as an example of many others. Borders were created by man sometimes yesterday, species exists millions of years. Everybody knows about species showing in some country list just because a dead specimen was found decades ago in some beach, how we are going to lead with that. This have no sense. We are getting into a swamp.--
Hector Bottai
talk
00:57, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Hector Bottai
in the case of a widespread species, there's no sense in specifying each and every country of occurrence. It would be more sensible to specify for your example of
Tachybaptus ruficollis
: "Widespread across Europe, much of Asia down to New Guinea, and most of Africa". However this isn't the case with the majority of species which are restricted to a very specific area (with birds being an exception, I suppose); for example
Tachybaptus pelzelnii
is restricted only to Madagascar.
Mariusm
talk
09:26, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
For recording plant distributions, the International Working Group on Taxonomic Databases For Plant Sciences has made up a system of "botanical regions" and "botanical countries" (see
en:World Geographical Scheme for Recording Plant Distributions
), which are somewhat independent from actual political borders. Maybe zoologists have similar approaches for distributions of animals? --
Thiotrix
talk
10:58, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Depends on the group of species, largely animals are listed either with maps or with political distributions. For example it may say Brasil: Amazonas, ie country and state. In descriptions they only list the type locality specifically with a geo-coord the rest is done as descriptive distribution. I remember looking at the Botanical system once before it would be difficult to adapt it to animals.
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
19:45, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Poll
This is a preliminary poll, to gauge the acceptance of the "distribution" information among WS users. In case it is accepted, another poll will follow to determine the format of the information.
Mariusm
talk
16:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Do you support the inclusion of "Native distribution areas" section in WS?
Support
Mariusm
talk
16:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
Dan Koehl
talk
17:33, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
Andyboorman
talk
19:21, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
Franz Xaver
talk
19:47, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
RLJ
talk
19:51, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
Thiotrix
talk
21:10, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
Neferkheperre
talk
23:16, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
Orchi
talk
08:52, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Oppose
unless a sensible way to tackle historical distributions can be enacted. --
EncycloPetey
talk
19:11, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Oppose
--
Hector Bottai
talk
23:48, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Support
-- tentative-- I support this in principal, however a good way needs to be formed for the how. I will also comment that distribution is not nomenclatural data as was stated earlier. However, I do feel it is useful information if presented well. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
03:05, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Oppose
Outside the scope of Wikispecies, and better recorded in Wikipedia/ Wikidata.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
20:49, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Oppose
Circeus
talk
20:55, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Oppose
Frequently impossible to know, difficult to make language-agnostic, and contradicts the
charter
: this is information for an encyclopedia. I am not opposed to a language-neutral map. —
Justin (
ko
vf
00:18, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Native distribution areas — poll results and options
The poll's results for adding a "Native distribution areas" section are:
9 support.
5 oppose.
Consequently, the distribution feature is accepted and can be incorporated (optional not mandatory) in any species page.
We still have to decide on the exact format to be employed in this section. Take into account that we have
17,193
pages which already incorporate the distribution section and that they all employ the
{{
Nadi
}}
template format. However this template is used only with botanical species. I suggest the following parameters to be considered:
A "==" section placed just before the references section or a "===" section following the synonym section.
Hidden versus standard section. In the hidden option, used by the
{{
Nadi
}}
template, an "Expend" button must be pressed to display the contents. Since most species have only a few distribution areas I see no benefit in this mode.
Countries organized under regions, for example "Malesia" under the "Asia-Tropical" region (see the
Vaccinium laurifolium
page). This surely makes editing more difficult.
Use linked countries and country-categories. For example [[China]] and [[Category: China]] the same way we use [[DBSNU]] and [[Category:DBSNU]] for repositories. This way we can facilitate the production of lists of species per country.
When a species is widespread over large areas, it is preferred to generalize. For example "widespread in Europe and south east Asia" instead of specifying each and every country of occurrence.
I would like to have your comments on your desirable format.
Mariusm
talk
17:06, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Re #4: I think this will just be a disastrous headache with very little benefit, honestly. Plus, it's very difficult to make it language-agnostic (if we do decide to do this, we should use ISO country codes). —
Justin (
ko
vf
21:23, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
I cannot agree more with Justin. Don't matter the votation result, we are still on time to stop this, as you can see it was voted with no idea on how to do it. Please think about just a matter of priorities. One simple example: the very important family Anatidae, the popular ducks, is well behind other wikis taxonomically wise. Our main focus should be the leadership in taxonomic update, never the followers. And now, valuable editors will burn their brains trying to put a range on ducks that fly all over the word. Come on! --
Hector Bottai
talk
22:39, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Hector Bottai
Keep in mind that: (1) this section is optional and not mandatory (2) there are already more than 17,000 species-pages which include this section.
Mariusm
talk
09:52, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mariusm
This is only 2,8% of today's total pages. If I remember our main target was getting to 1 million pages. We have so many red species links to worry on...why to disperse our focus, even being optional.--
Hector Bottai
talk
10:08, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Botany is simpler than zoology, as it uses a well accepted and easily translatable system. This has already been pointed out and botany is the main culprit for the existing usage. I agree about optionality, but it does seem to be the one of the concerns for those editors who tend to "improve" taxon pages along with VN, format, syntax and images. All in all I am happy for the current usage in botany to continue, as per the vote, rather than a blanket ban. The botanical horse has bolted has it not? Indeed it also does have relevance to the taxonomy of plants.
Andyboorman
talk
10:11, 28 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
9 vs. 5 is hardly a measure of consensus; and you really shouldn't be closing a discussion which you yourself opened.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
15:09, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Most wanted author pages
The following are, at the time of writing, our "most wanted" (i.e. most inbound links to pages that do not yet exist) author pages:
Adriana Sanchez‏‎
(203 links)
Bengt Oxelman‏‎
(203 links)
Idelfonso Castañeda-Noa‏‎
(203 links)
Nadja Korotkova‏‎
(203 links)
Patricia Hernández-Ledesma
‏‎ (203 links)
Sabine von Mering‏‎
(203 links)
Walter G. Berendsohn
‏‎ (203 links)
Hille Ris Lambers‏‎
(74 links)
Dellis Vern Meidinger
‏‎ (60 links)
If you can, please join me in working to create and populate them.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
21:14, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you for this, Andy. Great job on the basic maintenance here. —
Justin (
ko
vf
21:21, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Two more:
Nicolás F. Brignone
‏‎ (56 links)
Silvia S. Denham‏‎
(56 links)
--
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
16:12, 29 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
UMS
UMS
and
Category:UMS
do not exist, but are used on four pages. Where is it? I note that Wikidata has a "University of Modern Sciences" (
d:Q12204437
), in Yemen.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:02, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
I found a
PDF of the article
. The relevant paragraph:
"Holotypen und Para-typen der neubeschriebenen Taxa (außer denen von Euthalia aconthea abangaen. ssp., die im Museum der Universiti Malaysia Sarawak, Kota Samarahan, verbleiben) sind in der coll. C. G. Treadaway deponiert. Sie werden später in die Sammlung des Senckenberg-Museums, Frankfurt am Main, gelangen."
Translation:
"Holotypes and paratypes of the newly described taxa (except those of
Euthalia aconthea abangae
ssp., which remain in the Museum of the Universiti Malaysia Sarawak, Kota Samarahan) are deposited in C. G. Treadaway's collection. They will later depisited in the collection of the Senckenberg Museum, Frankfurt am Main."
So, three things:
Only one taxon (
Euthalia aconthea abangae
) should be marked as deposited in "UMS", the otehrs are in Treadaway's personal collection
UMS stands for the "Museum of the Universiti Malaysia Sarawak", but is not a usual abbreviation for that institution: it seems to be usually for Universiti Malaysia Sabah
We do have a page and category for Universiti Malaysia Sarawak, I believe:
UNIMAS
(there's also UMSM and NHMUM listed
on the repositories page
).
Circeus
talk
18:04, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Using wikispecies for a public agronomical project
Hello everyone,
I work at INRA in the SYSTEM UMR (based at Montpellier, France), and my current project is the creation of an informatic tool to browse, share and use knowledge about systemic agriculture (understand a lot of ecosystem with a lot of specialist).
First of all, I don't know if I am at the right place to discuss this, but I couldn't find better so feel free to send me a PM to redirect me at the right direrction.
I would like to use the wikispecies data as a thesaurus ontology directly on the tool, so agronoms whom describe new processus have a structured vocabulary (ontology/thesaurus) whith semantics in it, while having rich description and documentation, images, and "partiality". For whom can/want understand, we are currently using the NALT ontology for the species taxonomy (
The aim of the project is to build a platform to share agronomical knowledge, to help conception of new agronomical culture plans : the more connectivity we got, the better it is, and wikimedia seems a very good entity to work with.
Best regards,
Guilhem HEINRICH
email : guilhem.heinrich@inra.fr
— The preceding
unsigned
comment was added by
147.99.7.96
talk
contribs
) 13:48, 30 November 2018‎.
You might also like to consider using
Wikidata
, which is available as linked- open- data.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
15:15, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Gerald R. Baum
It seems likely that
Gerald R. Baum
, a paleo-cirripedologist, is the same person as the geologist of the same name, described at
- the author of '
The Mattassee Lake sites
' (1982). Can anyone confirm?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
11:50, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Baum is indeed geologist, usually working sequence stratigraphy on US East Coastal Plain. How he got to be taxon authority is by being second author in two publications with
Victor A. Zullo
, with 2-3 cirripede species.
Neferkheperre
talk
13:52, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Category:Taxa by author, sort
I see that the
Category:Taxa by author
is partially sorted by surname (where there is an index used), partially sorted by given name (where there is not). Which sort is preferred in Wikispecies and is there any action of standardization planned? Which one should I use, if I use the category? Thanks for your attention and sorry for my clumsy writing. —
Daniel FR
talk
11:33, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Sort by surname is preferred; by using
{{DEFAULTSORT:}}
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
11:51, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
You can try the template:
{{Taxa by author|Name surname|surname, name}}
Burmeister
talk
12:26, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Yes, That's a better solution.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:55, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Syntax highlighting
A recent change to this wiki's software has, it seems, enabled syntax highlighting.
Coincidentally, the spelchecker in my brower, Firefox, no longer highlights mistyped words (the highlighting is still present on mistyped worsds in the subject field of ths page, for example, so the spelchck plugin is active).
Does anyone know more about this? Are other wikis affected (Commons and Wikidata are not; I have a spearte highlighting script in Wikipedia)?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
11:50, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Template:Ti
What is the point of
{{
Ti
}}
? It renders text like this:
Example
by applying a span with this styling:
style="color: black; background-color: #e8e8e8; font-family: verdana; font-size: 90%; font-weight: bold;"
and has no other effect.
Why is it used on some pages, and not others? Do we need it?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
12:03, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Delete wrongly named item
Hi, Folks! What can I do to have a wrongly named item deleted? (Here: "Ca
tegory:John Hewitt taxa", it's not by me.) I tried to move it to "Category:John Hewitt taxa", but this category already exists. —
Daniel FR
talk
12:40, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
I have deleted it for you. Best regards
Andyboorman
talk
12:53, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
I got in just after you and found it redlinked. I did correct two transcluded pages, so all is swell.
Neferkheperre
talk
13:02, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thanks to both of you! <3 —
Daniel FR
talk
13:23, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
(But how'd you do it, Andy?)
reply
Missing repositories
We have red links for the following repository abbreviations:
CMA
FHS
FSL
GZU
IEUP
IRET
JLA
MEC
MMU
MNW
MPA
MZN
NR
PRA
PUM
UA
UI
UMS
ZI
ZJUC
ZUMT
I have been unable to identifty the repositires to which they refer. Can anyone assist, please?
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
13:56, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
There are a few
here
and
here
. Hope this helps
Andyboorman
talk
15:39, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
CMA: Personal (ichthyological) collection of
Muthukumarasamy Arunachalam
FHS: Personal herbarium of
Hans Peter Fuchs
FSL: Centre des Sciences de la Terre, Université Claude Bernard (i.e. Collection de Géologie[?], Université Claude Bernard Lyon 1). FSL stands for "Faculté des Sciences de Lyons".
GZU: Index Herbariorium for Graz University Herbarium
IEUP: Istituto di Entomologia, Università degli Studi, Pavia, Italy
IRET: Probably Institut de Recherche en Écologie Tropicale, Gabon
JLA: Personal collection of
Jean-Louis Amiet
(now deposited at
MHNG
, JLA should not be linked at all)
MEC: Medical Entomological Collection, Institute of Microbiology and Epidemiology, Beijing (We have this as CME, MEIM on the repositories list and
IMEAMMS
MMU: Museum of Manchester, The University, Manchester, England (i.e.
MMUE
MNW:
this is a typo
for
NMW
MPA: ???
MZN: Probably Muséum-aquarium de Nancy, nowadays referred to as
MAN
NR: Probably Naturhistoriska Riksmuseet,
SMNH
PRA: Index Herbariorium for Institute of Botany, Czech Academy of Sciences
PUM: maybe Universitá di Pisa (
MSNUP
)? Abbreviation is from
here
, but PUM not listed in their museum abbreviation.
UA:
Libotonius/Albanerpeton: "Department of Geology, University of Alberta" (
UALVP
?)
Triaenops: Université d'Antananarivo (
UADBA
?)
UI: University of illinois Museum of natural history (UIMNH), now part of
INHS
UMS: I
answered this
after you asked yesterday.
ZI: Zoological Institute, Academy of Sciences, St. Peterburg, i.e.
ZIN
or
ZISP
ZJUC: Hymenoptera collection of Zhejiang University,
ZJUH
ZMUT: Department of Zoology, University Museum, University of Tokyo, i.e.
TUM
Most of those are listed in the linked publications. Some are
stated on the taxon pages
Circeus
talk
17:42, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you. I've made pages and categories (or, in a couple of cases, redirects) for those that are unabiguous. Happy for others to check them.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
21:26, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Bembidion m
This bot generated "article" is probably a duplicate of
Bembidion m-signatum
. @
User:Mariusm
, could you please check this. --
Succu
talk
06:46, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Of course you're right, my bot isn't used to handling x-y species-name-format. I deleted it, thanks for your alertness.
Mariusm
talk
07:09, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mariusm
: From the same batch: Is it
Aplothorax burchellii
(created by you) or
Aplothorax burchelli
? --
Succu
talk
20:08, 30 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Succu
This is a tricky one. The question is whether the name is based "Burchell" or on "Burchelli"? In fact it's after William John Burchell (1781–1863), therefore it should be "Aplothorax burchelli".
Mariusm
talk
10:09, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
In the
original description
Waterhouse used the spelling
Aplothorax burchellii
... --
Succu
talk
10:33, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Succu
No, the original description is
here
and Waterhouse mentions there specifically "Burchell" as the person after which the species is called. Therefore "burchellii" is a
lapsus calami
of Waterhouse.
Mariusm
talk
11:15, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mariusm
and
Succu
Having read
ICZN Art. 31.1
, from the examples given there, it depends, whether the genitive is constructed form the modern name Burchell or according to Art. 31.1.1. from the latinized form Burchellius. The last sentence of Art. 31.1.2 tells: "the stem of such a name is determined by the action of the original author when forming the genitive." By using the form Burchellii, Waterhouse derived the genitive from the latinized form Burchellius in accordance with Art. 31.1.1. So,
Aplothorax burchellii
should be the correct name. Regards --
Franz Xaver
talk
16:33, 1 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Succu
Franz Xaver
There is indeed a mixing of "burchelli" and "burchellii" regarding patronymic names of William John Burchell:
Eciton burchellii
Pedioplanis burchelli
Equus quagga burchellii
etc. In the case of modern/Latinized name versions or possibilities, it ultimately depends on the author as Franz Xaver rightly says. Burchellius being a form rarely used, I wasn't aware of it. I will make
Aplothorax burchellii
the species name and
Aplothorax burchelli
a synonym.
Mariusm
talk
10:31, 2 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Misspelled Sabine Von Mering redirect
I would kindly ask for input from the WS community to
a developing discussion regarding delete of misspelled Sabine Von Mering redirect
to Sabine von Mering, which has been deleted and restored several times the past week.
Dan Koehl
talk
10:38, 3 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mysterious category
Does anybody know, why
Tenuipalpus caudatus
is sorted in Category:Taxon authorities? I wanted to delete the category, but I do not find the code for this. --
Thiotrix
talk
22:36, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
The category was hidden among the references. I removed it. Regards --
Franz Xaver
talk
00:10, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Should we really pop illustrations of scientists on organism pages?
Circeus
talk
02:47, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Nope, most certainly not. The page suffered from several shortcomings, such as using BASEPAGENAME and lacking a lot of author- and journal links as well as
{{
Repository link
}}
templates. Thanks for the heads-up: it's all sorted now!
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
03:38, 5 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thank you all! --
Thiotrix
talk
09:48, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
A word of encouragement
In the recent couple of years I concentrate in updating the
Staphylinidae
familia which is an exceptionally diverse beetle family. I've contacted one of the world leading experts on this group
Alfred Francis Newton
to ask for information and pointed to him the WS resource. Here is an extract from his reply:
"I had not looked as [at] Wikispecies for a while, and was impressed at what is there, including the complete bibliography for me and the data on some south temperate staphs from our PEET site. It is a useful resource, and worth supporting.
For that reason, I attach a copy of the same Excel file extract for Staphyliniformia that I recently made and sent to Catalogue of Life, and also to the Field Museum IT team, with permission to use data from it for those web resources, and now likewise for Wikispecies."
This ought to provide us with encouragement to keep on improving WS and making it a sought-after resource.
Mariusm
talk
09:40, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Wonderful news! Thank you for sharing. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
12:32, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Agree, well done
Mariusm
good news! Is it possible that WS has now reached a level, where it is relevant to more actively invite people to join the project?
Dan Koehl
talk
13:09, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Dan, I do sometimes contact authors asking for more information and pointing to problems I've found in their articles, and in the process I mention WS. But those are busy scientists and I don't suppose they'll be contributing directly. However when we overcome a certain popularity threshold I think some editors will migrate from WP to us. Right now too many pages are way too much deficient and the amount of work needed to remedy that is way too much to be handled by the quantity of editors active right now. This is vicious cycle which needs to be broken somehow. This is why I use
MariusBot
to add thousands of new species pages, albeit in a reduced form.
Mariusm
talk
14:14, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Prymnesiophyceae (algae/Chromista) not a current name?
Prymnesiophyceae (algae) has been replaced by the earlier published name Coccolithophyceae in a number of recent online and print sources. I have added some comments at
which others may care to follow up... Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
21:33, 6 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Modify a Template
Can anybody with more knowledge of template procedures help me out. I have made a template
BRBA
, which I hoped and thought linked directly to a taxon page via the template's and Brassibase search procedures. I based it on the well known and well used template
WCSP
. Unfortunately it does not work correctly, although I thought it did! Brassibase has now become the most respected and well known site for
Brassiaceae
, as can be seen, so I feel it would be good to get it working correctly. Best regards and fingers crossed.
Andyboorman
talk
10:54, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
I think it works now. I replaced the http by https and added the PATH parameter to the urlencode function in order to transform the spaces into %20. -
RLJ
talk
12:07, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Thanks it certainly seems to work on all fronts. Cheers
Andyboorman
talk
12:25, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Homonyms Mabokiana
Hello zoology editors, please have a look at
Mabokiana (disambiguation)
, as both names cannot be valid. Thanks, --
Thiotrix
talk
13:04, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Seems to me a clear case of junior homonymy.
Mabokiana
Leraut, 2015 appears to be invalid. You can contact the author Patrice Leraut at pleraut@mnhn.fr and ask...
Mariusm
talk
13:56, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Mabokiana
Boulard, 1976 is a currently accepted name according to the Membracoidea of the World Database, as referenced in the current Catalogue of Life. Interestingly the name seems to be obscure in both its published versions, neither appearing in a current Google Scholar search. They are, nonetheless, indexed in the ION database, see
(with some uncertainty about the publication year of the Boulard name). Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
21:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Redundant disambiguation pages and categories Template:Disambig and Template:Disambiguation
We currently have two different but redundant templates:
Template:Disambig
and
Template:Disambiguation
. The former has well over 1,000 incoming links, is connected to other similar templates through Wikidata, and automatically places entries in
Category:Disambiguation pages
while the later is used on less than 500 pages, and places pages in additional, and apparently redundant category trees:
Category:All disambiguation pages
and
Category:All article disambiguation pages
. I think
{{
Disambiguation
}}
should be merged into
{{
Disambig
}}
, although I am not certain if it's as easy as creating a redirect. And is there a reason to have three different disambiguation pages with little or no distinction? I think it would be useful to separate taxonomic disambiguation pages (e.g.
Agarista
) from authority pages (e.g.
Smith
), but the current category tree should be clarified before the mess gets any messier. Thoughts? -
Animalparty
talk
20:49, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
And for context, I note former discussions dating back years regarding disambiguation (e.g.
here
here
, and
here
). Seems like lots of discussion, little meaningful action. -
Animalparty
talk
20:59, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Animalparty
to give the correct numbers:
{{
Disambig
}}
has 5851 occurrences while
{{
Disambiguation
}}
has only 52 occurrences. I can replace
{{
Disambiguation
}}
with
{{
Disambig
}}
using AWB bot. Does anyone have any objections to this?
Mariusm
talk
10:11, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Go for it!
Andyboorman
talk
11:21, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
No objections here. I always use
{{
Disambig
}}
Neferkheperre
talk
13:24, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
The template we keep should, eventually, be named Template:Disambiguation, with Template:Disambig being a redirect to it.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
20:47, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
Why? What is the big deal about Template:Disambiguation?
Andyboorman
talk
20:50, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
"Disambiguation" is a word; "Disambig" is jargon.
Andy Mabbett
Pigsonthewing
);
Talk to Andy
Andy's edits
21:05, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
I agree that
Template:Disambiguation
should be the preferred name, with other variants as redirects
to increase convenience for users
. The
equivalent template in English Wikipedia
has redirects "Dab", "Disambig", "Disamb",
among others
. Rather than forcing users to memorize a plethora of arcane templates, we should be bending over backwards to make templates as user-friendly and intuitive as possible, if we ever expect more than a handful of users to contribute at any given time.
Animalparty
talk
22:00, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
reply
...so, no more discussion, no action? Typical.
Animalparty
talk
17:42, 12 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Animalparty
since the discussion was clearly in favor of getting rid of the current implementation of
{{
Disambiguation
}}
, you could have done this yourself easily enough. Following Andy's suggestion, I have solved the issue by moving
{{
Disambig
}}
over
{{
Disambiguation
}}
, leaving a redirect as recommended, and deleted the categories.
Circeus
talk
02:48, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Circeus
Thanks for that. I am a bit hesitant to unilaterally modify/redirect templates, although it appears they work just like article redirects. Cheers,
Animalparty
talk
03:01, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Species names determined in public auction?!
Apparently several groups are staging public auctions to sell newly discovered species' names (see
here
). The winners can name the won species after themselves, their mother, their pet dog - just about anything they wish. The minimum bid for each species name is $10,000 and the auctions are conducted in a conventional auction house. This is a strange way to eke money out of taxonomy. Anyone here interested in bidding?
Mariusm
talk
12:30, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Nothing new there.
Callicebus aureipalatii
seems it needs to be updated?
) got its name that way
thirteen
years ago
Circeus
talk
12:47, 16 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
More sensible than
taxonomic vandalism by "scientists".
Money for conservation doesn't just fall out of the sky.
Animalparty
talk
21:37, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Rubiaceae
Advice and comments please, particularly from botanists.
Rubiaceae
is the largest family here on WS still with numerous redlink genera and indeed tribes. It has had a lot of work on it by the scientific community and I have added some of the most important to the taxon page Reference Section. However, the biggest postulated change is a move to two rather than three tribes (Robbrecht & Manen, 2006 and Rydin, 2017) this has recently been taken up by Stevens on the APW site. This change will involve the merging of
Cinchonoideae
and
Ixoroideae
, under an expanded Cinchonoideae, leaving
Rubioideae
largely intact. Do we think that WS should adopt this approach? I would like to begin to get rid of redlinks, but need some advice before starting, so over to the community. Best regards
Andyboorman
talk
09:05, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
In my opinion, subfamilies and tribes are not the most urgent issues within Rubiaceae. Still
Rydin et al. (2017)
are writing about "conflicting results". So, it is not very likely, that dust already has settled. Anyway, many genera are missing in WS, also rather large ones as e.g.
Faramea
. Adding these, would be independent from infrafamiliar systematics. On the other hand, some genera have been re-circumscribed during the last years. For example, the change concerning
Psychotria
versus
Palicourea
seems to be settled already and WCSP has followed, but some species in WS still are in their old genus, e.g.
Psychotria poeppigiana
, which now should be
Palicourea tomentosa
. --
Franz Xaver
talk
11:38, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
I am reluctant to just place genera at the family level ignoring classification completely, but I do agree that WS is a complete mess, which ever way you look at it. Thanks
Andyboorman
talk
12:09, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Andyboorman
Placing genera at family level ignoring infrafamiliar classification, is not exactly, what I wanted to propose. As far as I see, adding a genus makes sense also, if its present placement is not final, as a reclassification within the infrafamiliar systematics does only require to update one single taxonavigation template. However, a missing taxon page for a genus is likely to prevent, that someone would add species pages on occasion. So, it would be nice to have taxon pages at least for all large genera of Rubiaceae. Regards --
Franz Xaver
talk
16:30, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Franz Xaver
I am in agreement with your last statement and general thoughts. It does look like that most tribes are settled for now, as are most of the major and important genera. Regards
Andyboorman
talk
18:15, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Franz Xaver
I have had a look in the last few days and made some changes, added papers and resources - see
Palicoureeae
. I will not do any more work until I have contacted Govaerts, for example asking why they have not accepted the full synonymy of
Psychotria
put forward by Razafimandimbison et al. (2014), which will render
Psychotrieae
monotypic. Best regards
Andyboorman
talk
20:03, 17 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Andyboorman
I personally prefer to call it "monogeneric" instead of "monotypic", as also subgenera and sections within
Psychotria
are required to have types. Regards --
Franz Xaver
talk
15:12, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
I have heard back from Rafael Govaerts and WCSP is as up to date to as possible for Rubiaceae. The biggest problem is where the scientific literature has not resulted in valid species combinations for changes at the generic level, for example in
Psychotria
, where Razafimandimbison et al. were a triffle lax in dealing with their synonymy leaving numerous loose ends. It was also pointed out to me that there are some 45000 outstanding combinations needed across the whole of the flora. Therefore I can recommend that editors be confident in using WCSP, but also be careful when interpreting the scientific literature and make a check for formal publication of changes. Best regards
Andyboorman
talk
13:22, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Andyboorman
Thanks for letting me know. That's one of the possible explanations I was thinking of, that not all of the required combinations are available yet, which would be necessary, when a genus is to be synonymised under
Psychotria
. There was a similar delay with transfer of the former
Psychotria
subg.
Heteropsychtria
to
Palicourea
. It seems, that in the latter case now all the required combinations have been published. So, WCSP meanwhile has implemented this move. An other reason I was thinking of, was that possibly they might still be hesitant to synonymize the genera of the "Pacific
Psychotria
clade", as there an alternative solution seems to be possible, where genera as
Hydnophytum
Calycosia
, or
Amaracarpus
could be saved by removing some few species of
Psychotria
into segregate genera.
"45000 outstanding combinations needed" seems to be a high end estimation, as Rubiaceae altogether is thought to have about 13500 species. However, the number of 45000 possibly refers to the total content of WCSP? Regards --
Franz Xaver
talk
15:08, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
You are correct the 45000 refers to all extant vascular plants that will comprise Global Flora Vol 4. Regards
Andyboorman
talk
17:18, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Advice on
Hemimastix kukwesjijk
It appears that classification is
very much up in the air
. Does anyone here have a perspective on how this microorganism is being discussed taxonomically? —
Justin (
ko
vf
21:41, 18 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
As far as I know,
Hemimastix
and
Spironema
are placed in Hemimastigophora. Hemimastigophora is technically a phylum, but the researchers argue that it should be considered its own supra-kingdom. Personally, I think WS needs to overhaul its higher eukaryotic classifications. I don't think that the four kingdom groupings presented at the main page reflect current opinions very well.
Voganaa
talk
16:16, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Higher level classification of Kingdom
Protista
is very seriously in chaos. It is now several kingdoms, but nobody is in agreement as to their arrangement or names. I have no idea how long this shall continue. At LSU, workers are using classifications lower than
Foraminifera
, and leaving higher level arrangements alone until they become stable.
Neferkheperre
talk
00:16, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
In IRMNG (see www.irmng.org if unfamiliar) I try to follow the Ruggiero et al. (2015) higher classification, also used by Catalogue of Life (CoL), for protists for pragmatic reasons (maximum compatibility with other systems that also follow this reasoning), except where it seems to be in error, is already out-of-date, or some other reason. Phylum Hemimastigophora does not appear in Ruggiero et al. but is a good phylum according to Lax et al., 2018: "Hemimastigophora is a novel supra-kingdom-level lineage of eukaryotes. Nature." , available online at
, so I have re-instated it in IRMNG as of last month, see
. This is the version of record that will appear in my next export to CoL (approx. March 2019), unless anything happens in the mean time to revise this opinion. (CoL currently uses IRMNG for its protist coverage, with exceptions where other good sources exist already e.g. for Foraminifera). Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
22:42, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Possibly duplicate author pages
These author pages are possibly duplicates. As they concern zoologists, I ask the zoology editors to check them and please merge, if necessary:
Juan A. Zaragoza
Juan Antonio Zaragoza
Hans Christoph Zeller-Lukashort
Hans Christof Zeller-Lukashort
and maybe
Hans Christof Zeller
Run-zhi Zhang
Run-Zhi Zhang
Gu-Ang Yang
Gu-ang Yang
Heng-mei Yan
Heng-Mei Yan
Yu Mei Xu
Yu-Mei Xu
Kind regards, --
Thiotrix
talk
20:20, 4 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Please also check
Sebastian Rosenfeld
and
Sebastián Rosenfeld
DGtal
talk
12:49, 1 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Close discussion Vernacular names on RFC?
Can someone who hasnt participated in this discussion please make an estimate of the consensus, and close the discussion
Should the names in the == Vertacular names == section be spelled correctly
Dan Koehl
talk
10:10, 28 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
I will take care of it tomorrow (busy today). –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
04:42, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Bot needed
Hello folks. Can anybody write a bot to get rid of la="taxon name" from the VN section? Latin is not a vernacular name after all. It is getting a bit frustrating to remove it manually every time I come across it. Thanks once again.
Andyboorman
talk
13:59, 14 December 2018 (UTC)
reply
Perhaps a job for
KoehlBot
? The
|la
and spaced
| la
part would most likely be easy to get rid of, since that portion of the string is more or less identical on all of the taxon pages. For the rest of the string (i.e. the equals sign, any white space, and any letters) I think a fairly simple regular expression would suffice. It should be set to remove
everything
after
la
until it reaches a
pipe (i.e. when it reaches the next VN language) or a
curly bracket (i.e. the end of the VN template).
If a remember correctly the regular expression for finding
any
character is
(.)
where the round brackets acts as delimiters from the rest of the code string. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
06:04, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Yes,
Tommy Kronkvist
and
Andyboorman
, Ill try it out, maybe today.
Dan Koehl
talk
10:12, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Tommy Kronkvist
and
Andyboorman
, I think now it is working. Maybe it would be wise to stop editors from inserting any more |la= ??
Dan Koehl
talk
13:34, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Dan Koehl
Tommy Kronkvist
, and
Andyboorman
Thanks Dan. I will post a message to the effect of not adding |la=. Best Regards
Andyboorman
talk
13:58, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Tommy Kronkvist
and
Andyboorman
, after doing some succesful trials at my personal user account, I have not yet identified any errors, so now I let
User:KoehlBot
continue this task, which means the edits will no longer be visible on recent changes, unless Bot edits is chosen. If possible, please help me check a couple of times, that the Bot is working properly.
Dan Koehl
talk
15:27, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
Dan Koehl
and
Andyboorman
I've checked all of the (currently) 68 edits made by KoehlBot in regards to this issue, and all of them are good. Also, I've added the following segment to the
Help:Vernacular names section
help page in order to point out this whole thing:
"Please note that while most scientific names use Latin grammatical form they are most often
not
to be considered proper Latin. Hence the correct Latin vernacular name of a taxon is very seldom identical to the scientific name of said taxon. As an example the Latin vernacular name for domestic cat is not
Felis silvestris catus
, but "cattus".
I think the VN help page needs to be further updated to state that we only recommend modern languages in the VN list, and that all dead languages – Latin included – should be left out altogether. Quite frankly the
entire
VN help page is in need of a total remake, but in all honesty I currently don't feel up for the task... –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
00:19, 9 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
|la
Latin is not a Vernacular Name, please refrain from adding |la= to the Vernacular Name section. A bot has gone through editing out existing occurrences, so please do not add new ones. Regards
Andyboorman
talk
14:00, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Of course, there had existed Latin vernacular name in ancient times, but it is nonsense to add scientific names as "Latin vernacular names". Anyway, also adding the ancient names does not make much sense, as it is often not very clear, which plants were meant, when ancient authors as Plinius, Vergilius etc. used a name. For example, I now have found, that
Prunus avium
originally would have been named "cornum" or "durum" in Latin. (The first later shifted to
Cornus mas
.) However, even the ancient author, who wrote this in a commentary on Vergilius, might have reported only contemporary speculations. Later the name "cerasus" was adopted from Greek, which probably came with imported
Prunus cerasus
. Anyway, vernacular names should be restricted to living languages. Probably nobody here wishes vernacular names from Gothic, Old English or Middle High German, or even Hittite, though there certainly such have existed. --
Franz Xaver
talk
23:34, 8 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Subdominium
I never stumbled about that kind of rank before? Is it really in use? --
Succu
talk
20:51, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Dominion (latin: Dominium) was proposed by Moore (1971, 1974) as a taxon above the rank of kingdom. The same concept was later articulated by Woese et al. as their "Domain" (no latin equivalent). "Domain" seems to have achieved currency, "Dominion" not so. "Subdominium" seems to be used by only one author, Stefan Luketa, in a 2012 treatment, for Subdominium Unikonta vs. Subdominium Bikonta. Elsewhere these clades are recognised, if at all, as superkingdoms. So "Subdominium" could remain for that 1 treatment, or be dropped, I guess...
Refer:
Moore R.T. 1974. Proposals for the recognition of super ranks. Taxon. 23, 650–652
C R Woese, O Kandler, and M L Wheelis. 1990. Towards a natural system of organisms: proposal for the domains Archaea, Bacteria, and Eucarya. PNAS June 1, 1990 87 (12) 4576-4579.
Luketa, S., 2012. New views on the megaclassification of life. Protistology 7 (4), 218–237.
Moore's (1974) proposal was a submission for consideration for the 1978 (Leningrad) Botanical Code, but was not adopted therein or since.
Regards - Tony
Tony 1212
talk
03:03, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
testspecies
.wikimedia.org
Hi, I saw a
phab task
to make a wikiquote test wiki with Wikibase, the extension that runs Wikidata. I think it would suit species well, what do you think about a wikibase species wiki test ? --
CreativeC
talk
06:23, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
There has been a lot of discussion adjacent to this but basically that would duplicate
d:
. See
d:Wikidata:Wikispecies
. —
Justin (
ko
vf
06:48, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Justin
Maybe it would be a good trial to see whether species should be merged into Wikidata or not --
CreativeC
talk
11:40, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
I don't think so, mostly because Wikidata doesn't handle the taxon/name dichotomy well at
all
. Specifically, it treats name as properties of taxa, when to be functional, species: absolutely needs them to be separate entities (in fact, having synonyms and other things that are not explicitly taxon causes the system to spazz out). That's not to mention the ridiculous amount of editing required in wikidata to disentangle slready created name+taxa entities.
Circeus
talk
13:24, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
I have made similar experience with wikidata. As it works now, it would not be able to render all information from wikispecies. Probably it is not worth to make this trial. I don't know, which problems would be solved by merging WS into WD. However, it would be a big challenge. If it ain't broke don't fix it. --
Franz Xaver
talk
14:43, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
« If it ain’t broke, improve it » ? It is not about merging WS into WD anyway but to test a « Sturctured Wikispecies ». --
CreativeC
talk
22:09, 21 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Question
hi wikispecies have 658 articles
but in this site have 671 articles
why
Amirh123
talk
08:56, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Amirh123
As seen on
Special:Statistics
, Wikispecies currently has 658,812
content
pages, i.e. more than 650 thousand taxon pages, author pages, journal pages, and such. According to the same page, the
total
number of Wikispecies pages is 1,204,756  or in other words more than 1,2 million pages with all the already mentioned content pages, but also including redirect pages, talk pages, logs, etc. The data on
Special:Statistics
use the official Wikimedia databases and are updated fairly often, and usually very close to correct at any given time.
As a contrast, the
wikiscan.org
organisation is independent and not at all related to Wikimedia or Wikispecies, and that is also true for their Wikispecies sub page at
species.wikiscan.org.
They collect data from a multitude of databases which may or may not be updated as regularly or correctly as the official Wikimedia databases. Perhaps Wikiscan also differentiates between "content pages" and non-content pages in a different way than Wikimedia does. Wikiscan presents their data in any way they like, and therefore their data may either be very correct, or very inaccurate – most likely it's something in between...
–Best regards,
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
17:57, 23 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Vandalism
Hi all,
this page
and many others are vandalized, but I don't know, how it was done. It must have something to do with the Image-Template. Help please! --
Murma174
talk
08:16, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
P.S.
List of affected pages
P.P.S. Many Modules have been changed. Please revert.
Thanks,
Tommy Kronkvist
for your quick reaction! --
Murma174
talk
08:32, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
You are welcome.
Persistent patrolling
can be really helpful when trying to find these attacks as early as possible! All of the 18 malicious edits are now reverted, and
all of the 8 involved IP-users are blocked
for vandalism. As you said, many of the edits were aimed at modules (and a few templates as well) which means that even though only a total of 18 edits were made, several thousand pages were hit by the attack. As a preemptive intervention
I have now write-protected all of the involved modules and templates
, blocking unregistered and new users from editing them. Data regarding all of the above actions can of course be found in the logs (some of which are only readable for admins), or I can e-mail any admin a summary upon request. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
09:30, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
All modules should be protected against IP editing IMO. And templates as well. Only experienced users know, how modules or templates work. --
Murma174
talk
10:44, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
I agree, however most often mass-protecting pages doesn't play well with the Wikimedia guidelines and policies. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
16:02, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Proposal for new main page
Hi, I realized a new main page here
Main Page/draft
. This page use
{{Colored box}}
(a alternative version of
{{Main Page/Frame}}
on Wikidata. The main page is accessible on mobile (responsive content). Please see subpage for picture for mobile :
Wikispecies:Village Pump/Picture main page
Tomybrz
Bip Bip
19:23, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
This is not bad. I'm not convinced about the kingdom buttons at the beginning--I think that's too much real estate. —
Justin (
ko
vf
07:47, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
If we're going to do a redesign I really think we should represent the diversity of eukaryotes better. The four kingdom layout in the current page is not representative and is not in common use among taxonomists. This
paper
has a good update. I also feel like it would be nice to have phylogenies appear more prominently. I ported
cladogram
example
) over from wikipedia some time ago. It's not perfect, but I think it represents higher taxonomic levels better than a single image.
Voganaa
talk
10:41, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
─────────────────────────
It's just a proposal, you can modify the draft as you want it. Regards :)
Tomybrz
Bip Bip
11:56, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
A good solid presentation — but (a) Taxon Navigation section needs to be revised and its handling modified (b) two columns instead of one (c) Collaboration with ZooKeys section needs to be less prominent.
Mariusm
talk
16:56, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Bot
hi do way to creat species articles with bot
Amirh123
talk
11:54, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
A bot can not satisfy Wikispecies' requirements in regards to proper and verifiable sources and citations for each and every taxon. It might work for a more mainstream type encyclopedia such as Wikipedia, but from a scientific point of view the standards requirements of Wikispecies are much higher. For example, (automatically) collecting data from sites like
Catalogue of Life
FishBase
TROPICOS
Avibase
Index Fungorum
Beetles (Coleoptera) and Coleopterologists
etc
might
give us the correct author name(s), year of publication and perhaps also the primary references, but in order to satisfy Wikispecies' requirements in regards to verifiability it is impossible to use that information without first also cross-referencing it against other sources. That can not be done automatically by a bot. Also, a lot of important information is
impossible
to purge from those sites in an automated way, at least right now. They all present information about holo-, para- and neotypes, synonymy, type localities etc in a very heterogenous way, making it impossible or at least very difficult for a bot to automatically assemble and accredit that data in a way that can be formally accepted by the Wikispecies community and its standards. So sorry: no, at least not at the time of this writing. That may of course change in the future, but I'm afraid we're yet many years from such a scenario to actually work. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
15:33, 26 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
but many species articles not on wikispecies about 1500000 species articles but in wikispecies have 600000 species articles.
Amirh123
talk
07:19, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
I know, but that is not a good reason for automatically creating bad pages with many errors on Wikispecies... The bots can not do the work in a good way (yet). –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
12:43, 27 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
butMariusBot creat articles how to do this work
Amirh123
talk
07:34, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Mariusbot is controlled by an experienced editor and is only used for non-controversial simple taxa, certainly not for complex synonymy or where there is unresolved issues. The editor also makes cross checks before using the bot.
Andyboorman
talk
08:26, 28 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
do I creat bot to creat simple taxa
Amirh123
talk
10:42, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
You will not get the bot approved to run here unless you can demonstrate that you are able to successfully create and edit pages manually. This means you need to have an interest in and a working knowledge of taxonomy and classification, as well as the formats used here. Look through
this section
, which details the bot approval process on WS. At the moment your only contributions are about bots, which is a problem. Regards
Andyboorman
talk
11:15, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
IOC 9.1 2019 is alive
An advise for those who follow Birds taxonomy in general. The 9.1 version of IOC is alive with numerous changes
Species, here
and
Taxonomy, here
. I already updated all related to Neotropical birds which accounts for about 50% of the changes, including (finally!) an alignment of the mess in
Furnariidae
between IOC and other classifications. Good luck!--
Hector Bottai
talk
17:19, 30 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Thank you for the information! –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
09:40, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
So it's OK now?
I thought we were not to use template BASEPAGENAME? My tiny brain needs help!
Andyboorman
talk
14:43, 1 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Andyboorman
No we shouldn't use it – at least not on taxon- and author pages. It's still added to to some template pages though, however that is done automatically by (other) templates and server software and such, and shouldn't be done manually by us human users. Also, when we come across existing
BASEPAGENAME
strings on taxon- or author pages we should replace them with the proper page names, or at least "
subst
" them. The Village Pump talks about all this can seem a bit confusing and even somewhat incoherent, but the data is still there and the result of the voting is clear:
Poll regarding subst:ing BASEPAGENAME
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
12:29, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Tommy Kronkvist
Thanks it is just what I thought, just saw an editor or two still using it. Best Regards
Andyboorman
talk
14:40, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Author Lalana (Rueda)
Does anyone know whether
Rogelio Lalana
(here at WS said to be a Mexican carcinologist) is the same author as Dr.
Rogelio Lalana Rueda
, assistant professor at the Centro de Investigaciones Marinas from the Universidad de La Habana, Havana, Cuba?
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
10:09, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
May be. It will take more research. One and only article under his name was on Cuban shrimp. Some years ago, Cuban biologists only got generally published by using institutional affiliations in other countries, mainly Mexico and Brazil.
Neferkheperre
talk
15:49, 8 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Where to put DISPLAYTITLE:FULLPAGENAME ?
Some users (e.g.
Fagus
) place this term into the taxonavigation templates at genus level which has the consequence that titles of supraspecific and infraspecific plant taxa are italicized including the labels "subsp.", "subg." etc. which should be in normal type. Of course this could be repaired by adding a DISPLAYTITLE with the correct format and the "noerror" parameter at the end of the relevant taxon pages. Or, as I would prefer, should DISPLAYTITLE not be placed into templates, but on the taxon pages and in the correct format where necessary? --
RLJ
talk
20:15, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Agree with
RLJ
too much of this unnecessary templating anyway can cause unforeseen consequences. Editors should fully explore the use of these gimmicks via the Sandbox before unleashing them on taxon pages, so creating work for others. BASEPAGENAME another one. Why when there are so many red links?
Andyboorman
talk
21:56, 9 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Personally I would like to rid Wikispecies from all instances of
{{DISPLAYTITLE:
title
}}
regardless whether "
title
" equals a properly formatted taxon name or the
{{FULLPAGENAME}}
magic word. I don't really see the point of micro-managing the text format of the topmost page title, as long as all names are correctly formatted in the Taxonavigation section and the rest of the page (i.e. where the actual information resides). However since this wish of mine is unlikely to ever become true, I find the second best solution would be to follow the suggestions proposed by
RLJ
and
Andyboorman
Please also note that there is another available parametre besides
noerror
which in some cases may be more suitable, namely
noreplace
. The first one suppresses any warning messages about
{{DISPLAYTITLE}}
, while the latter one suppresses the actual
{{DISPLAYTITLE}}
command (for example in a template), if another
{{DISPLAYTITLE}}
is already "active" on the page (i.e. part of the code of the actual taxon page). –Best regards,
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
02:22, 11 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Agree with
Andyboorman
I find these types of uses can cause problems in nomenclatural pages. I prefer removal too, or likewise follow
RLJ
's proposals as a second option. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
23:46, 12 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Species articles
hi do way to creat species articles of
Amirh123
talk
11:17, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Amirh123
Please note that creating taxon pages solely upon the data found in Catalogue of Life is unrecommended. Other additional and complementary sources are almost always needed as well. –
Tommy Kronkvist
talk
),
18:16, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
I endorse Tommy's comment. It is useful, but not definitive.
Andyboorman
talk
21:39, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
Catalogue of Life is not nearly complete. I looked at Cirripedia, which group I am most familiar with, and it returned one species, out of about 2000 possible. WoRMS is better.
Neferkheperre
talk
22:59, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
reply
I would wait for the full release of COL+ and see how they are then. Maybe at this point it should be readdressed. Cheers
Scott Thomson
Faendalimas
talk
01:03, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Searching for plant taxon
Hi all!
In Arrmenian WP there are pages not joined with WD. Can anyone find and join or create new item.
Latin name
hyWP article
Notes
Anethum graveolens
Սամիթ բուրավետ
done; Սամիթ moved to dill (as spice)
Anthemis caucasica
Chandjian
Անթեմ կովկասյան
Astragalus schuschaensis
Գազ Շուշիի
Centaurea arpensis
Տերեփուկ արփայի
Centaurea leuzeoides
Տերեփուկ լևզեանման
Centaurea phaeopappoides
Տերեփուկ ֆեոպապուսանման
Cephalorrhynchus kirpicznikovii
Գլխակտուց Կիրպիչնիկովի
Chaenorhinum gerense
Խենորին գերեյական
Cousinia megrica
Խոզանափուշ Մեղրիի
Delphinium foetidum
Ոջլախոտ գարշահոտ
Doronicum balansae
Դորոնիկում Բալանզայի
done
Erysimum eginense
Ձագախոտ Էգինյան
Galanthus artjuschenkoae
Ձնծաղիկ Արտյուշենկոյի
done
Grossheimia caroli–henrici
Գրոսհեյմիա Կարլ-Հենրիի
Jaubertia szovitsii
Ժոբերցիա Սովիչի
Linaria megrica
Կտավախոտ Մեղրու
Linaria pyramidata
Կտավախոտ բրգաձև
Primula cordifolia
Գնարբուկ սրտատերև
done
Pyrus daralagezi
Տանձենի Դարեղեգիսի
Pyrus raddeana
Տանձենի Ռադդեի
Ranunculus villosus
Գորտնուկ մազոտ
Silene araxina
Ծվծվուկ Արաքսի
Silene raddeana
Ծվծվուկ Ռադդեի
Stelleropsis magakjanii
Ստելերոպսիս Մաղաքյանի
Stenotaenia daralaghezica
Ստենոտենիա դարալագյազի
Steptorhamphus czerepanovii
Ստեպտորամֆուս Չերեպանովի
Tomanthea carthamoides
Տոմանթեա կանճրականման
Tomanthea daralaghezica
Տոմանթեա Դարեղեգիսի
Venidium calendulaceum
Վենիդիում վաղենականման
Verbascum gossypium
Խռնդատ բամբակային
The correct name seems to be
Verbascum gossypinum
Typo in source (
Red Book of Armenia
thanks in advance. -
Kareyac
talk
06:21, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Hi, I allowed myself to add links to the scientific names in the table. Those with blue links are usually regarded here as synonyms of other names. -
RLJ
talk
11:54, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Thank you, I could not define these synonyms correctly. -
Kareyac
talk
17:23, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
The names in red above will need a check for example
Pyrus × daralagezii
is the correct name according to IPNI, but I have no idea whether or not is is accepted or used. This will need to be undertaken before a taxon page is created. Also suggest you contact WD directly and give them a copy of the table.
Andyboorman
talk
14:48, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Thank you, in the source (Red Book of Armenia) "Pyrus daralagezi" is mentioned as "Pyrus daralagezi Mulk.". I also
followed
your advice. -
Kareyac
talk
17:23, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
The majority of these articles are based on
Red Book of Armenia
aviable also in English. May that would help. -
Kareyac
talk
17:23, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Templates
This is a plea for a group of very useful templates to be promoted and also deposited in a much more accessible form than there are now. These templates are commonly used in the Reference Section to link out to well respected and useful secondary sources.
{{
WCSP
}}
{{
IPNI
}}
{{
Catol-Hassler
}}
and
{{
MBG
}}
are comparatively well known and used widely. However I have stumbled across a family of templates, such as
{{
MBGMadagascar
}}
that link to specialist, but incredibly useful sites. Then there are
{{
PWO
}}
{{
APD
}}
and
{{
APC
}}
amongst others and I am sure that zoologists have their own versions. I would like these to be promoted wider and made far more easily accessible than they are now. Could we discuss and come up with a viable solution, please? Best regards
Andyboorman
talk
18:53, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
It may be possible to include a subsection in
Wikispecies:Templates
with these useful templates (organized by type), or create a new page to do this.
Burmeister
talk
20:25, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Sounds like a beginnings of a plan. Hopefully the authors will donate their templates.
Andyboorman
talk
20:39, 15 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Franz Xaver
Orchi
would you like to comment on this thread, as contributers to botany pages and users of templates?
Andyboorman
talk
13:58, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
Most of these templates can be found in
Category:External botany link templates
. However, collecting them in a subsection of
Wikispecies:Templates
will be a better solution. --
Franz Xaver
talk
14:42, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
....good idea, I use
{{
PWO
}}
instead of the old link
{{
Emocotdir
}}
Maybe
{{
PWO
}}
should be a bit different in beginning the text compared to
{{
WCSP
}}
{{
APC
}}
is good; the old link
{{
APNI
}}
was not in function always.
Further good links welcome.
Orchi
talk
14:58, 17 February 2019 (UTC)
reply
The above discussion is closed.
Please do not modify it.
Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this archive.
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Village Pump/Archive 48
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